Troubling Question...!

[Vinay Jha]

Western Astrology is rooted in Tetrabiblos of Ptolemy , although there are evidences of its ultimate source in Chaldean Clay Tablets of cir. 409 BC onwards.

Tetrabiblos is a brilliant work, but cannot be used as a comprehensive compendium of astrology. Moreover, many of its fundamental premises have been discarded by Western astrologers due to failures in applicability. Western Astrology has evolved a great deal, esp during recent centuries, mainly due to incompleteness of their ancient literature. That is why they do not value the ancients.

Same is not the case with India. India's ancient astrological literature is vast, and in spite of a great deal of permanent loss, only a small portion of surviving ancient astrological literature has seen the printing press. The respect accorded to ancient wisdom is due to the complete mastery of the ancients on the subject. But there is another reason, which is unpalatable to atheists &c : Rishis were actually semi-divine beings to whom
vedic knowledge was relealed, and any Vedic mantra can be effective only if its viniyoga is done correctly, which includes invocation of its particular rishi. This meaning of rishi is "mantra-drashtaa". Jyotisha, being a limb of Veda, is also defined by rishis, the last of Vedic rishis being Sage Parashara (Veda Vyaasa Ji or Jaimini Ji were regarded as at par to rishis due to their capabilities, but actually they were not Vedic Rishis). Hence, Sage Parashara is the Last Word in not only Vedic Astrology, but also in all Vedic branches (there is an old Sanskrit saying : "Kalau Parashara smritau").
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Personal Reality is the OBJECTIVE reality of the person, distinct from the SUBJECTIVE perception of reality by a person which is wrongly called as Subjective-reality. Actually, subjective-reality is not reality at all, because its exists only in minds and not in reality.

vj

[Rohiniranjan]

At least in my mind (hence subjective, presumably!) there is no doubt that long ago Astrology hadf been touched and brought to earth as an objective reality by mental and spiritual giants who shall always remain rightfuly revered. However, what perplexes me is that apart from relatively very few individuals (given the umpteen generations emanating after them have managed to or were allowed by the Higher Intelligence to leave behind their traces in astrology. Particularly the readings they gave, their approaches technical or otherwise when they delineated the charts as they presumably must have, although my subjective perception is fully willing to accept that the readings requests must have been fewer and not of the variable seriousness and sincerity that one observes in the mushrooming and callous manner, thanks to Mahaawatar Internet!

Rohiniranjan

[Vinay Jha]

...... the readings requests must have been fewer and not of the variable seriousness and sincerity that one observes in the mushrooming and callous manner, thanks to Mahaawatar Internet! :-)
Rohiniranjan

Here I differ Sir ! All horoscopes of even unborn mortals were known to rishis like Bhrigu Ji. Astrology is neither an empirical science to be deduced from chart readings, nor the rishis needed any such "scientific" methodology. The fundamentals of Vedic Astrology are a priori postulates revealed to the rishis. Mortals cannot deduce such disciplines through logic.

I have seen many examples of divine powers of astrology. For instance, one astrologer in Lucknow deduced birth time of Dr Bindeshwar Pathak, the world famous founder of Sulabh International, from his palm reading, although Dr Pathak had no knowledge of his birth time, and when I checked all chief events of his life, I found the time given to him by the Lucknow-based astrologer was correct. I am not such an expert in palmistry. I have seen such examples in horoscopy and other branches too. My late Guru ji never used even pen and paper to make horoscopes, he did every calculation mentally, and his predictions were never wrong.

vj

[Rohiniranjan]

...... the readings requests must have been fewer and not of the variable seriousness and sincerity that one observes in the mushrooming and callous manner, thanks to Mahaawatar Internet!
Rohiniranjan

Here I differ Sir ! All horoscopes of even unborn mortals were known to rishis like Bhrigu Ji. Astrology is neither an empirical science to be deduced from chart readings, nor the rishis needed any such "scientific" methodology. The fundamentals of Vedic Astrology are a priori postulates revealed to the rishis. Mortals cannot deduce such disciplines through logic.

I have seen many examples of divine powers of astrology. For instance, one astrologer in Lucknow deduced birth time of Dr Bindeshwar Pathak, the world famous founder of Sulabh International, from his palm reading, although Dr Pathak had no knowledge of his birth time, and when I checked all chief events of his life, I found the time given to him by the Lucknow-based astrologer was correct. I am not such an expert in palmistry. I have seen such examples in horoscopy and other branches too. My late Guru ji never used even pen and paper to make horoscopes, he did every calculation mentally, and his predictions were never wrong.

vj

Not sure which point of mine are you differing on! I was commenting on the modern situation seen on internet forums!

As to Bhrigu Muni, Parashara ji and the great modern astrologers who are/were also very spiritually-endowed, in my mind they are Super-Divinators and calling them astrologers would probably not be a fitting label. With their psychic prowess and super-paranormal abilities, a chart or the technical dicta over which we ordinary astrologers break each other's head (metaphorically!) and get into flame wars etc -- which I have always avoided because those should be beneath even an ordinary astrologer -- were probably not even essential.

Yet, many get sucked into those and brick-batting ensues!! Most otherwise good astrologers that we see would miserably fail on the list of requirements given in ancient texts. We should therefore treat the superior ones who do not need birth charts or data as approaching trikalagna status and not even daivagna a term originally reserved for astrologer-divinators.

Anyways, I personally do not see any significant difference of opinion between us or rather in what I wrote (which you quoted from my message) and your comments.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Vinay Jha]

...perhaps it is another example of my "ant" brain failing to interpret your elephantine language.

no pun..

vj

[Rohiniranjan]

...perhaps it is another example of my "ant" brain failing to interpret your elephantine language.

no pun..

vj

Namashkaar Vinay ji,

Both wrong metaphors!
Neither the "brain" is that tiny, nor the language is anything but transparent and therefore quite unlike a pachyderm!

That said, an ant can readily cause mental unrest in an elephant and so must never be thought of diminutively!

We both revere our Great Ancestors: The Rishis and Munis. Perhaps in different ways since our life-plans might be different.

Rohiniranjan