Ancient 'SYSTEMS APPROACH' to Vedic Jyotisha

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Ancient 'SYSTEMS APPROACH' to Vedic Jyotisha

Post by Vinay Jha » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:56 pm

(The so-called Systems Approach of Mr V K Choudhary is a novel invention by him in 1991 AD, having many fundamental differences with classics, and therefore his approach must not be confused with the traditional Parashari Systems Approach described by me here.)

Let me first describe in brief, in the context of Vedic Astrology, the real System Approach as it is used in modern physical and social sciences by established academics.

Following is the definition of the term "System Approach" according to an article jointly written by following professors, edited by the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University Allan Bullock :-

Stafford Beer (Visiting Professor of Cybernetics, University of Manchester, and Adjunct Professor of Social Systems Sciences, University of Pennsysvania), R. I. Tricker, Prof in Univ of Hong Kong, J. A. Mirrlees, Prof in Univ of Oxford, M. A. H. Dempster, Prof in Dunhousie Univ, New Brunswick :

"A systems approach (or systems analysis, though this phrase also bears the narrower meaning defined in (2) below) is an approach to the study of physical and social systems which enables complex and dynamic situations to be understood in broad outline. It is a conceptual tool, the user of which may also receive scientific assistance from Operational Research. The approach is valid whether the topic is a heating system, a postal system, a health or educational system, a firm, an economy, or a government. To identify a system it is necessary to distinguish its boundaries, to be aware of its purposes (whether these are a blueprint for its design or inferred from its behaviour), and to define the level of abstraction at which it is treated. Systems may turn out to contain recognizable sub-systems, sub-sub-systems, and so on. These arrangements are sometimes investigated as hierarchies; but because the arrangement often involves a nesting (in the manner of Chinese boxes) of systems within each other they may also be defined as Recursion. One of the discoveries made by the systems approach is the extent to which attempts to improve the performance of a sub-system by its own criteria (sub-optimization) may act to the detriment of the total system and even to the defeat of its objectives. …
(2) More narrowly, systems analysis is the first stage in presenting any large task to a computer (the other stages being Programming and Coding)…dividing the process into a number of relatively independent parts…"

Thus, systems Approach is a valid approach to horoscope analysis, provided it is used correctly. Being a programmer of astrological software, I have to deal with "system analysis" in its technical narrow sense as defined above in (2), and as a Vedic Astrologer, I have to apply Systems Approach to chart reading in the wider sense as defined above. Moreover, I have long experience of applying Systems Approach to Comparative Linguistics, Social Sciences, Weather Science. etc, in which I have carried out researches for decades alongwith studying those phenomena astrologically as well. Let me describe the modern scientific "Systems Approach" as it should be applied to Vedic Astrology", which is actually what ancient rishis used.

Any specific Horoscope is regarded as one integral but open and dynamic system, which is part of a larger super-system. That larger super-system is the living individual who is an immortal Jeeva carrying fruits of karmas of past lives to this life which are manifest through the Horoscope. That individual is also related to other individuals who influence him/her. The horoscope is not a closed and finite system, it is open to external influences, such as free will of the individual, his/her relations, planetary propitiation, worshipping or fasting blessings of siddha persons, etc. Keeping this in mind, we can study the Horoscope as a unique system in two ways : (1) study the Horoscope according to its inner structures and their functions in the contexts of various events in life, and/or (2) take the Horoscope or any of its sub-systems as a Black Box without trying to study its inner structures and functions and concentrate on its external behaviour in different contexts in order to find out its manifest properties ; this latter approach can help us in confusing situations when classical rules are unclear. This Black Box approach is not the standard method and is only one of the diverse heuristic methods when classical standard method does not help us. The standard classical method of Vedic Astrology, which is same as Systems Approach (not of Mr V K Choudhary but of Sage Parashara) is to take the Horoscope as one system consisting of many levels of hierarchical inner sub-systems and sub-sub-systems, each functioning according to some specific criteria unique to that sub-system but controlled by the larger and universal criteria of the main system, so that the sub-systems do not run independently of the whole system and do not thereby produce wrong or lop-sided results. Thus, the whole system has some unique complex STRUCTURE defined by sub-structures or sub-systems and their constituent elements, and FUNCTIONS defined by individual functions of constituents and their mutual interactions, collectively producing the overall fruits of the entire Horoscope for specified time or period.

Now let us see how Systems Approach can be actually applied to Vedic Astrology. Systems Approach is fruitful only when it is used with Structural-Functional Approach of modern sciences. When a whole system, e.g. a Horoscope, is analyzed in terms of its constituent sub-systems and their constituent elements, the overriding criterion used for defining the Structures and their mutual relations is Function of the whole as well as the distinct functions of its parts. Definition is a logical tool which distinguishes structural elements or sub-systems on the basis of their essential functions within the scope of that whole system. For instance, in the case of a particular astrological chart, a particular horoscopic House is an angular range within the entire stretch of 360 degrees of that chart which functions as a point (and not as a range) of contrast in an interlocking network of contrasts. This method of defining structural ranges as functional points of contrast in an interlocking network of contrasts is the most important conceptual foundation of structuralism-functionalism used in modern physical and social sciences, and can be applied to any hierarchical level or sub-system in astrological chart-reading.

For instance, an astrological planet should be defined not in terms of its physical properties and forces such as gravitation as used in physical science, but in terms of its astrological properties as mentioned in rishi-based classics. Conceptually, it is wrong to use physical astronomy for positions of planets and reject the properties of those planets according to the same physical astronomy. It is hypocrisy to use one part of modern physics and reject the remaining. And it is worse when such "progress" is suggested in the name of making Jyotisha more scientific. Either make Jyotisha entirely scientific by rejecting all non-scientific concepts and methods in traditional Jyotisha, or avoid mixing two entirely different systems : Jyotisha and Physics.

For instance, the sub-system of Twelve-houses functions on the basis of twelve contrasting houses, each house distinguished by its specific properties which are in contrast to properties of some or all of other houses. These specific properties of any particular house are defined on the basis of multiple criteria, such as fixed properties of that house as either mentioned in classics or as deduced from classical rules, properties of that house as defined by means of effects on other houses (e.g., 6H is 3rd from 4H and therefore 6H shows brother of mother), fixed properties of rashi/rashis in that house, properties of planets in that house or aspecting or owning that house and their relatives influencing that house, influence of other divisionals on the performance of that house, etc and all these factors contribute to the making of final fruit of that house known as Bhaava-phala. Therefore, the sub-system of Twelve-houses is influenced by other sub-systems, some of which are parallel sub-systems such as the sub-system of nine planets, while other sub-systems may be actually sub-sub-system hiearchically in the lower structural ladder of that sub-system such as the sub-system of aspects or the sub-system of ownerships, etc.

Thus, DEFINE each and every term in Jyotisha in proper astrological context. An astrological planet, therefore, should be defined strictly on the basis of its astrological characteristics, and nothing from Physics should be allowed to intrude into Jyotisha, otherwise one must start with rejecting Rahu-Ketu as planets, and end up with Sun and Moon as the only effective planets because others will have thousands and even millions of times weaker physical forces. Such a definition will allow us to apply system approach in understanding the characteristics of planets and houses as sub-systems within a larger system, and these sub-swill have finer sub-sub-systems such as aspects, friendships, etc.

Finally we will end up with a handful of charts interacting dynamically with each other simultaneously. For instance, for evaluating the prospects of wealth, we need to examine certain houses and planets in D-1 and then do the same examination of D-2, followed with comparison of their relative influences according to their dashaas. In same way, annual chart and ashtaka-varga, transits, etc will also exert their influence. All these charts will have three variations : LK, SK and CK (Lagna Kundali, Surya Kundali and Chandra Kundali). It is wrong to view any single chart in isolation, ignoring the mutual interplay of various charts and components as parts of an integrated system : this is the gist of Systems Approach which has been briefly described above under "STANDARD METHOD OF VEDIC JYOTISHA" and "Correct Shortcut of Vedic Jyotisha".

This is the shortcut of Vedic Jyotisha. The long-cut, based on either DAC or on some special Pre-Parashari rishi based systems, are almost impractical now-a-days. But some introduction must be given to finer nuances of Jyotisha.

In Linguistics, experts recognize surface structures and deep structures in grammar of any language. Surface structures define the rules of general grammar of a particular language based on characteristics of manifest language or Vaikhari, while deep structures give deeper and sometimes unintended meanings reflecting the deeper unconscious layers of mind of the speaker and some of the deepest structures may be related to phenomena like telepathy, clairvoyance, etc, or to Pashyanti form of language which does not use physical sounds. Another parallel can be drawn from genetics. Earlier, geneticians distinguished active genes from dormant genes, but now this static view is being discarded, because it is gradually coming to light that the so-called recessive genes do not manifest their activities directly as in the case with active genes, and these supposedly recessive genes form deeper structural relations with other, often distant, genes giving rise to genetic functions which are inexplicable on account of active genes. Deep structures may have deeper hierarchies and cross-level relations. In Jyotisha, we have simpler characteristics of planets and houses which manifest directly, and we also have many combinations or yogas and esoteric entities defying logical explanation which require deeper examination to reveal their underlying relations with surface structural relations of planets and houses.

In the light of this Vedic Systems Approach, we should define FUNCTIONAL characteristics of planets in an astrological chart, which are in contrast to the NATURAL characteristics of planets which are static, fixed and always the same in all horoscopes. Some astrologers wrongly define functional properties of planets merely on the basis of lordships of houses. Functional traits of planets are dependent on structural peculiarities of the particular horoscope we have at hand, and are therefore not static or fixed traits. If a planet is lord of 11H, its function will be malefic, hence this trait is "functional". Similarly, placement in a malefic house or in malefic company or aspected by some malefic planet will have some functional changes in the traits of that planet. Our conceptual framework must be systematic, uniform and organic, we cannot afford to define terms and concepts whimsically without a proper systematic approach, because definitions define our capability to recognize and solve problems. When we talk of functional attributes of a planet, we must define those attributes on the basis of structutal attributes (e.g., lordship of 11H is a structural attribute based on structure of a chart in the light of natural trait of ownership of signs by planets). If the structural attribute known as lordship of 11H gives rise to a certain function, ie, maleficence, then another structural attribute such as placement in 8H will give rise to a difference functional attribute which may be malefic in some context, e.g., bad for health, but good in some other context, e.g, esoteric knowledge.

Vinay Jha
Last edited by Vinay Jha on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:32 pm

I am so glad that you gave the clarifying disclaimer at the end of your nice posting! I was squirming in my chair as I was reading the reference to 'systems approach' in your write-up! To the point of distraction!! :-)

I had to read it all over, one more time, after arriving at that disclaimer.
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Post by Vinay Jha » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:41 pm

To prevent  "squirming and distraction", I have edited that article here to put the disclaimer at the beginning. Thanks.

Even my friends and students who follow my method are attacked by  "squirming"  and  distraction" with this article from me, although for different reasons. They find it  "difficult". But the difficulty is due to modern jargon. BPHS is based on this ancient ORGANIC, HOLISTIC and SYSTEM approach, according to which conclusions deduced from different charts must never be taken to be final, but to be used as intermediate material in a complex network of charts and other things in any single horoscope, otherwise we will end up with elephant's leg viewed as a pillar.

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Re: Ancient 'SYSTEMS APPROACH' to Vedic Jyotisha

Post by RishiRahul » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Vinay Jha wrote:(The so-called Systems Approach of Mr V K Choudhary is a novel invention by him in 1991 AD, having many fundamental differences with classics, and therefore his approach must not be confused with the traditional Parashari Systems Approach described by me here.)

Let me first describe in brief, in the context of Vedic Astrology, the real System Approach as it is used in modern physical and social sciences by established academics.

Following is the definition of the term "System Approach" according to an article jointly written by following professors, edited by the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University Allan Bullock :-

Stafford Beer (Visiting Professor of Cybernetics, University of Manchester, and Adjunct Professor of Social Systems Sciences, University of Pennsysvania), R. I. Tricker, Prof in Univ of Hong Kong, J. A. Mirrlees, Prof in Univ of Oxford, M. A. H. Dempster, Prof in Dunhousie Univ, New Brunswick :

"A systems approach (or systems analysis, though this phrase also bears the narrower meaning defined in (2) below) is an approach to the study of physical and social systems which enables complex and dynamic situations to be understood in broad outline. It is a conceptual tool, the user of which may also receive scientific assistance from Operational Research. The approach is valid whether the topic is a heating system, a postal system, a health or educational system, a firm, an economy, or a government. To identify a system it is necessary to distinguish its boundaries, to be aware of its purposes (whether these are a blueprint for its design or inferred from its behaviour), and to define the level of abstraction at which it is treated. Systems may turn out to contain recognizable sub-systems, sub-sub-systems, and so on. These arrangements are sometimes investigated as hierarchies; but because the arrangement often involves a nesting (in the manner of Chinese boxes) of systems within each other they may also be defined as Recursion. One of the discoveries made by the systems approach is the extent to which attempts to improve the performance of a sub-system by its own criteria (sub-optimization) may act to the detriment of the total system and even to the defeat of its objectives. …
(2) More narrowly, systems analysis is the first stage in presenting any large task to a computer (the other stages being Programming and Coding)…dividing the process into a number of relatively independent parts…"

Thus, systems Approach is a valid approach to horoscope analysis, provided it is used correctly. Being a programmer of astrological software, I have to deal with "system analysis" in its technical narrow sense as defined above in (2), and as a Vedic Astrologer, I have to apply Systems Approach to chart reading in the wider sense as defined above. Moreover, I have long experience of applying Systems Approach to Comparative Linguistics, Social Sciences, Weather Science. etc, in which I have carried out researches for decades alongwith studying those phenomena astrologically as well. Let me describe the modern scientific "Systems Approach" as it should be applied to Vedic Astrology", which is actually what ancient rishis used.

Any specific Horoscope is regarded as one integral but open and dynamic system, which is part of a larger super-system. That larger super-system is the living individual who is an immortal Jeeva carrying fruits of karmas of past lives to this life which are manifest through the Horoscope. That individual is also related to other individuals who influence him/her. The horoscope is not a closed and finite system, it is open to external influences, such as free will of the individual, his/her relations, planetary propitiation, worshipping or fasting blessings of siddha persons, etc. Keeping this in mind, we can study the Horoscope as a unique system in two ways : (1) study the Horoscope according to its inner structures and their functions in the contexts of various events in life, and/or (2) take the Horoscope or any of its sub-systems as a Black Box without trying to study its inner structures and functions and concentrate on its external behaviour in different contexts in order to find out its manifest properties ; this latter approach can help us in confusing situations when classical rules are unclear. This Black Box approach is not the standard method and is only one of the diverse heuristic methods when classical standard method does not help us. The standard classical method of Vedic Astrology, which is same as Systems Approach (not of Mr V K Choudhary but of Sage Parashara) is to take the Horoscope as one system consisting of many levels of hierarchical inner sub-systems and sub-sub-systems, each functioning according to some specific criteria unique to that sub-system but controlled by the larger and universal criteria of the main system, so that the sub-systems do not run independently of the whole system and do not thereby produce wrong or lop-sided results. Thus, the whole system has some unique complex STRUCTURE defined by sub-structures or sub-systems and their constituent elements, and FUNCTIONS defined by individual functions of constituents and their mutual interactions, collectively producing the overall fruits of the entire Horoscope for specified time or period.

Now let us see how Systems Approach can be actually applied to Vedic Astrology. Systems Approach is fruitful only when it is used with Structural-Functional Approach of modern sciences. When a whole system, e.g. a Horoscope, is analyzed in terms of its constituent sub-systems and their constituent elements, the overriding criterion used for defining the Structures and their mutual relations is Function of the whole as well as the distinct functions of its parts. Definition is a logical tool which distinguishes structural elements or sub-systems on the basis of their essential functions within the scope of that whole system. For instance, in the case of a particular astrological chart, a particular horoscopic House is an angular range within the entire stretch of 360 degrees of that chart which functions as a point (and not as a range) of contrast in an interlocking network of contrasts. This method of defining structural ranges as functional points of contrast in an interlocking network of contrasts is the most important conceptual foundation of structuralism-functionalism used in modern physical and social sciences, and can be applied to any hierarchical level or sub-system in astrological chart-reading.

For instance, an astrological planet should be defined not in terms of its physical properties and forces such as gravitation as used in physical science, but in terms of its astrological properties as mentioned in rishi-based classics. Conceptually, it is wrong to use physical astronomy for positions of planets and reject the properties of those planets according to the same physical astronomy. It is hypocrisy to use one part of modern physics and reject the remaining. And it is worse when such "progress" is suggested in the name of making Jyotisha more scientific. Either make Jyotisha entirely scientific by rejecting all non-scientific concepts and methods in traditional Jyotisha, or avoid mixing two entirely different systems : Jyotisha and Physics.

For instance, the sub-system of Twelve-houses functions on the basis of twelve contrasting houses, each house distinguished by its specific properties which are in contrast to properties of some or all of other houses. These specific properties of any particular house are defined on the basis of multiple criteria, such as fixed properties of that house as either mentioned in classics or as deduced from classical rules, properties of that house as defined by means of effects on other houses (e.g., 6H is 3rd from 4H and therefore 6H shows brother of mother), fixed properties of rashi/rashis in that house, properties of planets in that house or aspecting or owning that house and their relatives influencing that house, influence of other divisionals on the performance of that house, etc and all these factors contribute to the making of final fruit of that house known as Bhaava-phala. Therefore, the sub-system of Twelve-houses is influenced by other sub-systems, some of which are parallel sub-systems such as the sub-system of nine planets, while other sub-systems may be actually sub-sub-system hiearchically in the lower structural ladder of that sub-system such as the sub-system of aspects or the sub-system of ownerships, etc.

Thus, DEFINE each and every term in Jyotisha in proper astrological context. An astrological planet, therefore, should be defined strictly on the basis of its astrological characteristics, and nothing from Physics should be allowed to intrude into Jyotisha, otherwise one must start with rejecting Rahu-Ketu as planets, and end up with Sun and Moon as the only effective planets because others will have thousands and even millions of times weaker physical forces. Such a definition will allow us to apply system approach in understanding the characteristics of planets and houses as sub-systems within a larger system, and these sub-swill have finer sub-sub-systems such as aspects, friendships, etc.

Finally we will end up with a handful of charts interacting dynamically with each other simultaneously. For instance, for evaluating the prospects of wealth, we need to examine certain houses and planets in D-1 and then do the same examination of D-2, followed with comparison of their relative influences according to their dashaas. In same way, annual chart and ashtaka-varga, transits, etc will also exert their influence. All these charts will have three variations : LK, SK and CK (Lagna Kundali, Surya Kundali and Chandra Kundali). It is wrong to view any single chart in isolation, ignoring the mutual interplay of various charts and components as parts of an integrated system : this is the gist of Systems Approach which has been briefly described above under "STANDARD METHOD OF VEDIC JYOTISHA" and "Correct Shortcut of Vedic Jyotisha".

This is the shortcut of Vedic Jyotisha. The long-cut, based on either DAC or on some special Pre-Parashari rishi based systems, are almost impractical now-a-days. But some introduction must be given to finer nuances of Jyotisha.

In Linguistics, experts recognize surface structures and deep structures in grammar of any language. Surface structures define the rules of general grammar of a particular language based on characteristics of manifest language or Vaikhari, while deep structures give deeper and sometimes unintended meanings reflecting the deeper unconscious layers of mind of the speaker and some of the deepest structures may be related to phenomena like telepathy, clairvoyance, etc, or to Pashyanti form of language which does not use physical sounds. Another parallel can be drawn from genetics. Earlier, geneticians distinguished active genes from dormant genes, but now this static view is being discarded, because it is gradually coming to light that the so-called recessive genes do not manifest their activities directly as in the case with active genes, and these supposedly recessive genes form deeper structural relations with other, often distant, genes giving rise to genetic functions which are inexplicable on account of active genes. Deep structures may have deeper hierarchies and cross-level relations. In Jyotisha, we have simpler characteristics of planets and houses which manifest directly, and we also have many combinations or yogas and esoteric entities defying logical explanation which require deeper examination to reveal their underlying relations with surface structural relations of planets and houses.

In the light of this Vedic Systems Approach, we should define FUNCTIONAL characteristics of planets in an astrological chart, which are in contrast to the NATURAL characteristics of planets which are static, fixed and always the same in all horoscopes. Some astrologers wrongly define functional properties of planets merely on the basis of lordships of houses. Functional traits of planets are dependent on structural peculiarities of the particular horoscope we have at hand, and are therefore not static or fixed traits. If a planet is lord of 11H, its function will be malefic, hence this trait is "functional". Similarly, placement in a malefic house or in malefic company or aspected by some malefic planet will have some functional changes in the traits of that planet. Our conceptual framework must be systematic, uniform and organic, we cannot afford to define terms and concepts whimsically without a proper systematic approach, because definitions define our capability to recognize and solve problems. When we talk of functional attributes of a planet, we must define those attributes on the basis of structutal attributes (e.g., lordship of 11H is a structural attribute based on structure of a chart in the light of natural trait of ownership of signs by planets). If the structural attribute known as lordship of 11H gives rise to a certain function, ie, maleficence, then another structural attribute such as placement in 8H will give rise to a difference functional attribute which may be malefic in some context, e.g., bad for health, but good in some other context, e.g, esoteric knowledge.

Vinay Jha


Dear Vinay ji,

Can you explain the last paragraph please.

I always found the natural and functional characteristics mentioned by Parashara to be interesting and fascinating! :)

Infact this is much linked with the prescription of stones/remedies.

Further information on this will be enlightening.

Thanks,

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:37 pm

Roles that planets must play, given their inherent limits and limitations, as the reading blossoms and unfolds like a flower opening in all its beauty when spring arrives. A rose smelling like a rose, a jasmine, equally exquisite, but different.

The very same flowers, with their fragrance unaltered must be utilized for a variety of uses. They can be offered to Gods, or adorn a nuptial bed, or at times to welcome a political leader or a dignitary or simply offered as a tangible token of spiritual bonding by one lover to his beloved; so many roles the flowers play...

Love, Light, Reality,

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:24 pm

...The human mind has a unique faculty! It is like a photographic lens, if a crude analogy is permissible here! :-)
It can 'autofocus'. In the photographic machine, the system works through detecting differences in contrast (sharp vs fuzzy boundaries, bright vs dark, etc) as well as phase detection. However, generally speaking it comes as programmed from the manufacturer, although, some high-end cameras allow the photographer to recalibrate and fine-tune the programmed autofocus somewhat. It is way faster than manual focusing, as most experience.

The human mind can similarly autofocus on symbols and symbolisms. Symbols, like photographic objects are everywhere. Training allows the divinator to focus on the symbols and symbolism of choice. Be it a deck of cards or astrological factors and patterns, seemingly random lines and other marks on the body, or signals in nature, from gross to finer to the most subtle.

People in their overzealousness fight over this being superior over that method or symbol set and even within the same discipline over things such as which deck of cards is the best and most profound, and in astrology over zodiacs, specific techniques or finer divisions and create so much pain and anguish for themselves which at times spills over on to others which is painful to watch.

Unlike the relatively crude autofocusing in photo-equipment, human mind comes with a focusing system that has a built-in heuristic property. It can learn as it matures. Such is true for divinatory symbolisms. Symbolism is everywhere in the universe and in focused minds and hearts, each holographic sliver or approach (modality, techniques) contains the image of the WHOLE! Focus and focu-training is what is lacking as people chase that elusive Holy Grail of divination, which they already have in their hand, or near their reach and pursuit!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan
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Post by eye_of_tiger » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:20 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:...The human mind has a unique faculty! It is like a photographic lens, if a crude analogy is permissible here! :-)
It can 'autofocus'. In the photographic machine, the system works through detecting differences in contrast (sharp vs fuzzy boundaries, bright vs dark, etc) as well as phase detection. However, generally speaking it comes as programmed from the manufacturer, although, some high-end cameras allow the photographer to recalibrate and fine-tune the programmed autofocus somewhat. It is way faster than manual focusing, as most experience.

The human mind can similarly autofocus on symbols and symbolisms. Symbols, like photographic objects are everywhere. Training allows the divinator to focus on the symbols and symbolism of choice. Be it a deck of cards or astrological factors and patterns, seemingly random lines and other marks on the body, or signals in nature, from gross to finer to the most subtle.

People in their overzealousness fight over this being superior over that method or symbol set and even within the same discipline over things such as which deck of cards is the best and most profound, and in astrology over zodiacs, specific techniques or finer divisions and create so much pain and anguish for themselves which at times spills over on to others which is painful to watch.

Unlike the relatively crude autofocusing in photo-equipment, human mind comes with a focusing system that has a built-in heuristic property. It can learn as it matures. Such is true for divinatory symbolisms. Symbolism is everywhere in the universe and in focused minds and hearts, each holographic sliver or approach (modality, techniques) contains the image of the WHOLE! Focus and focu-training is what is lacking as people chase that elusive Holy Grail of divination, which they already have in their hand, or near their reach and pursuit!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan
It may be regarded by some of our members as a crude analogy (myself not included), but I think that it is probably one of the best and most interesting explanations I have ever seen of how the human mind and symbols interact with each another. Therefore in my opinion, you have no need  to apologise to anyone for using in order it to get your ideas across.

EoT  :smt038

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:20 pm

Thank you, EoT.
Human mind is indeed a wonderful creation!
Mitch Horowitz's "One simple idea: How Positive Thinking Reshaped Modern Life" is an interesting book that explores this facet/potential of human mind. It is a must read for all counselor-divinators. A powerful concept that unfortunately got and gets shabbily executed in modern times and has brought a bad name to the new age thinking because of poor and overzealous implementation :-(
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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:48 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:...The human mind has a unique faculty! It is like a photographic lens, if a crude analogy is permissible here! :-)
It can 'autofocus'. In the photographic machine, the system works through detecting differences in contrast (sharp vs fuzzy boundaries, bright vs dark, etc) as well as phase detection. However, generally speaking it comes as programmed from the manufacturer, although, some high-end cameras allow the photographer to recalibrate and fine-tune the programmed autofocus somewhat. It is way faster than manual focusing, as most experience.

The human mind can similarly autofocus on symbols and symbolisms. Symbols, like photographic objects are everywhere. Training allows the divinator to focus on the symbols and symbolism of choice. Be it a deck of cards or astrological factors and patterns, seemingly random lines and other marks on the body, or signals in nature, from gross to finer to the most subtle.

People in their overzealousness fight over this being superior over that method or symbol set and even within the same discipline over things such as which deck of cards is the best and most profound, and in astrology over zodiacs, specific techniques or finer divisions and create so much pain and anguish for themselves which at times spills over on to others which is painful to watch.

Unlike the relatively crude autofocusing in photo-equipment, human mind comes with a focusing system that has a built-in heuristic property. It can learn as it matures. Such is true for divinatory symbolisms. Symbolism is everywhere in the universe and in focused minds and hearts, each holographic sliver or approach (modality, techniques) contains the image of the WHOLE! Focus and focu-training is what is lacking as people chase that elusive Holy Grail of divination, which they already have in their hand, or near their reach and pursuit!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Absulutely!

We fight over 'this principle against that' in divination also; forgetting that all or most have its limited use.

With experience the human mind understands, how much to focus, where and to what extend.

With time and experience this happens automatically.

And your explanations is so apt!

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:43 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:...The human mind has a unique faculty! It is like a photographic lens, if a crude analogy is permissible here! :-)
It can 'autofocus'. In the photographic machine, the system works through detecting differences in contrast (sharp vs fuzzy boundaries, bright vs dark, etc) as well as phase detection. However, generally speaking it comes as programmed from the manufacturer, although, some high-end cameras allow the photographer to recalibrate and fine-tune the programmed autofocus somewhat. It is way faster than manual focusing, as most experience.

The human mind can similarly autofocus on symbols and symbolisms. Symbols, like photographic objects are everywhere. Training allows the divinator to focus on the symbols and symbolism of choice. Be it a deck of cards or astrological factors and patterns, seemingly random lines and other marks on the body, or signals in nature, from gross to finer to the most subtle.

People in their overzealousness fight over this being superior over that method or symbol set and even within the same discipline over things such as which deck of cards is the best and most profound, and in astrology over zodiacs, specific techniques or finer divisions and create so much pain and anguish for themselves which at times spills over on to others which is painful to watch.

Unlike the relatively crude autofocusing in photo-equipment, human mind comes with a focusing system that has a built-in heuristic property. It can learn as it matures. Such is true for divinatory symbolisms. Symbolism is everywhere in the universe and in focused minds and hearts, each holographic sliver or approach (modality, techniques) contains the image of the WHOLE! Focus and focu-training is what is lacking as people chase that elusive Holy Grail of divination, which they already have in their hand, or near their reach and pursuit!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Absulutely!

We fight over 'this principle against that' in divination also; forgetting that all or most have its limited use.

With experience the human mind understands, how much to focus, where and to what extend.

With time and experience this happens automatically.

And your explanations is so apt!

Rishi
You will enjoy Horowitz's take on the "positive vibes" belief that prevails in many sectors of New Age thinking! Mean-spirited sceptics call it 'the ostrich principle'!
Rohiniranjan
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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:52 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:...The human mind has a unique faculty! It is like a photographic lens, if a crude analogy is permissible here! :-)
It can 'autofocus'. In the photographic machine, the system works through detecting differences in contrast (sharp vs fuzzy boundaries, bright vs dark, etc) as well as phase detection. However, generally speaking it comes as programmed from the manufacturer, although, some high-end cameras allow the photographer to recalibrate and fine-tune the programmed autofocus somewhat. It is way faster than manual focusing, as most experience.

The human mind can similarly autofocus on symbols and symbolisms. Symbols, like photographic objects are everywhere. Training allows the divinator to focus on the symbols and symbolism of choice. Be it a deck of cards or astrological factors and patterns, seemingly random lines and other marks on the body, or signals in nature, from gross to finer to the most subtle.

People in their overzealousness fight over this being superior over that method or symbol set and even within the same discipline over things such as which deck of cards is the best and most profound, and in astrology over zodiacs, specific techniques or finer divisions and create so much pain and anguish for themselves which at times spills over on to others which is painful to watch.

Unlike the relatively crude autofocusing in photo-equipment, human mind comes with a focusing system that has a built-in heuristic property. It can learn as it matures. Such is true for divinatory symbolisms. Symbolism is everywhere in the universe and in focused minds and hearts, each holographic sliver or approach (modality, techniques) contains the image of the WHOLE! Focus and focu-training is what is lacking as people chase that elusive Holy Grail of divination, which they already have in their hand, or near their reach and pursuit!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Absulutely!

We fight over 'this principle against that' in divination also; forgetting that all or most have its limited use.

With experience the human mind understands, how much to focus, where and to what extend.

With time and experience this happens automatically.

And your explanations is so apt!

Rishi
You will enjoy Horowitz's take on the "positive vibes" belief that prevails in many sectors of New Age thinking! Mean-spirited sceptics call it 'the ostrich principle'!
I like the 'positive vibe' thing, as it strikes sharp bells for/to me.

Rishi




:smt041
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:59 pm

RishiRahul wrote: ...
I like the 'positive vibe' thing, as it strikes sharp bells for/to me.

Rishi


:smt041

If the mere mention of the title gets you so excited, imagine what would happen when you arrive at "Changing the Brain" and material that awaits beyond!

Love, Light, Levitation!

Rohiniranjan
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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote: ...
I like the 'positive vibe' thing, as it strikes sharp bells for/to me.

Rishi


:smt041

If the mere mention of the title gets you so excited, imagine what would happen when you arrive at "Changing the Brain" and material that awaits beyond!

Love, Light, Levitation!

Rohiniranjan

Can you send me the link where I can find the writing or the book?

Thanks,

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:00 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
...
Can you send me the link where I can find the writing or the book?

Thanks,

Rishi
Sorry, did not see your message earlier. You must have found the specifics by now, if interested. <LOL>
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Post by RishiRahul » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
...
Can you send me the link where I can find the writing or the book?

Thanks,

Rishi
Sorry, did not see your message earlier. You must have found the specifics by now, if interested. <LOL>

Dada,

Oh! that was a year ago.

I remember googling on this, and I found the idea interesting; but was unable to find a proper link :)

Rishi
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