A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

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Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:32 pm

Jyotish, astrology; rather vedic astrology predicts time (events) so well.

Being able to go back in time to rectify things is probably a matter of imagination and theory; or else how would the predictions succesfully made hold water??!

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:46 pm

RishiRahul wrote:Jyotish, astrology; rather vedic astrology predicts time (events) so well.

Being able to go back in time to rectify things is probably a matter of imagination and theory; or else how would the predictions succesfully made hold water??!

RishiRahul
Rishi,

Assumptions are at play galore...!

Such as assumptions about TIME being linear vs non-linear; sequential vs coexisting.

Assumptions about accuracy; assumptions about technical vs intuition; assumptions about Vedic vs pre-Vedic; assumptions about gods (archeology vs Daniken)

Assumption vs assumption!   :smt004
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Post by Votive » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:55 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:But , Ranjanda, they say that physical and mental objects are but the same!
What do you (think?) say?  ;-)
Dear Votive,

You never replied...? ;-)

Isn't that (what you said!) the underlying theme of astrology?

I used to think and say that the two were 'yoked' -- the MC and µc, but is the *string* that connects the two #objects# an assumption? Also a subtype of the realm in which mental objects reside?

But what connects the two types of energies? How do objects (sweets, amulets, flowers, water) appear out of thin air?  :smt037

Sir,
I am but a seeker delving in all corners curiously not a seer!

I do not have all the answers like astrologers who have 'captured' time and freely proclaim of the events to flow!!

But somehow the five senses have to be roped in. The Flower is only so because my senses send the stimuli processed by the CPU of my mind, which stores my experiential knowledge and reveals to me the Flower. Obviously, the world seems to 'have' a dual reality, one , that of the sense worlds and the other, what is a shadowy image ready to burst in clarity if I have the preparedness.

Astrology, perhaps, links the ordinary to the extraordinary. Ordinary physical events are understood and predicted by processes which are in themselves not so transparent and are highly subjective or as some would say 'intutive'.

It along with many other divinatory and so called 'occult' are the bridges as we seek to find the answers...

votive

Dear Votive,

If you think for a moment, the 'perceived' duality is not external (or perhaps real) but merely an attribute of the mind! A property of our perception and our obsessive-compulsive human need to categorize and classify  everything into neat and discreet packages of information. While this mental faculty of *discrimination* is vital in many pursuits, such a scientific research or even survival (poison vs food) we humans have come to have become over-dependent on it and it has invaded our societies and social interactions.

The juicy red tomato that provides us vitamin C and antioxidants and polyphenols that have cancer-protective salutary benefits is a product of years of cultivation by forefathers and priginated in nature as a rather poisonous green berry! A similar story surrounds the potato that is today the staple of many cuisines worldwide! Human minds have, on the other hand, managed to use discrimination (an inherent faculty of mind)  in isolating and utilizing many poisonous alkaloids, glycosides in plants to harness those into medicines that heal ailing hearts and minds! Sadly, human history is still replete with the same faculty of discrimination applied inappropriately against other humans creating social divisions, which have ranged from minor inconveniences to marginalisation all the way to determining who lives and who does not!

Ah the acme and nadirs of the mind that like the moon cycles between total darkness to fully-lit. Even that is not binary, since there are many greys in between? ;-)

Speaking of seers, saints and sages (of yore until now and forthcoming times?) that professed to have *captured* TIME, the fact remains that every single one of those despite their greatness (self-perceived or by their followers [chelas!]) have been captured by TIME! And TIME has a ravenous appetite, going by documented facts {and anecdotes too!}

L&L

Rohiniranjan

I agree, Ranjanda, probably one of the reasoins why  astrology remains elusive when we start searching for facts.

votive

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:58 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:But , Ranjanda, they say that physical and mental objects are but the same!
What do you (think?) say?  ;-)
Dear Votive,

You never replied...? ;-)

Isn't that (what you said!) the underlying theme of astrology?

I used to think and say that the two were 'yoked' -- the MC and µc, but is the *string* that connects the two #objects# an assumption? Also a subtype of the realm in which mental objects reside?

But what connects the two types of energies? How do objects (sweets, amulets, flowers, water) appear out of thin air?  :smt037

Sir,
I am but a seeker delving in all corners curiously not a seer!

I do not have all the answers like astrologers who have 'captured' time and freely proclaim of the events to flow!!

But somehow the five senses have to be roped in. The Flower is only so because my senses send the stimuli processed by the CPU of my mind, which stores my experiential knowledge and reveals to me the Flower. Obviously, the world seems to 'have' a dual reality, one , that of the sense worlds and the other, what is a shadowy image ready to burst in clarity if I have the preparedness.

Astrology, perhaps, links the ordinary to the extraordinary. Ordinary physical events are understood and predicted by processes which are in themselves not so transparent and are highly subjective or as some would say 'intutive'.

It along with many other divinatory and so called 'occult' are the bridges as we seek to find the answers...

votive

Dear Votive,

If you think for a moment, the 'perceived' duality is not external (or perhaps real) but merely an attribute of the mind! A property of our perception and our obsessive-compulsive human need to categorize and classify  everything into neat and discreet packages of information. While this mental faculty of *discrimination* is vital in many pursuits, such a scientific research or even survival (poison vs food) we humans have come to have become over-dependent on it and it has invaded our societies and social interactions.

The juicy red tomato that provides us vitamin C and antioxidants and polyphenols that have cancer-protective salutary benefits is a product of years of cultivation by forefathers and priginated in nature as a rather poisonous green berry! A similar story surrounds the potato that is today the staple of many cuisines worldwide! Human minds have, on the other hand, managed to use discrimination (an inherent faculty of mind)  in isolating and utilizing many poisonous alkaloids, glycosides in plants to harness those into medicines that heal ailing hearts and minds! Sadly, human history is still replete with the same faculty of discrimination applied inappropriately against other humans creating social divisions, which have ranged from minor inconveniences to marginalisation all the way to determining who lives and who does not!

Ah the acme and nadirs of the mind that like the moon cycles between total darkness to fully-lit. Even that is not binary, since there are many greys in between? ;-)

Speaking of seers, saints and sages (of yore until now and forthcoming times?) that professed to have *captured* TIME, the fact remains that every single one of those despite their greatness (self-perceived or by their followers [chelas!]) have been captured by TIME! And TIME has a ravenous appetite, going by documented facts {and anecdotes too!}

L&L

Rohiniranjan

I agree, Ranjanda, probably one of the reasoins why  astrology remains elusive when we start searching for facts.

votive
So, you agree that astrology (of any cloth or clothing!) is nowhere near being considered as science? 'Scientific method' utilized in astrological research, notwithstanding??
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Post by Votive » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:28 am

I agree, Sir.I have never been an advocate for astrology being treated as a Science!

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:21 pm

Votive wrote:I agree, Sir.I have never been an advocate for astrology being treated as a Science!
Astrology as it stands today, of course!
More al-chemical than chemical...? ;-)
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Post by RishiRahul » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:20 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:I agree, Sir.I have never been an advocate for astrology being treated as a Science!
Astrology as it stands today, of course!
More al-chemical than chemical...? ;-)


I don't know what it is exactly; but I know that it works well, and also that its analysis is very logical.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:38 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:I agree, Sir.I have never been an advocate for astrology being treated as a Science!
Astrology as it stands today, of course!
More al-chemical than chemical...? ;-)


I don't know what it is exactly; but I know that it works well, and also that its analysis is very logical.

RishiRahul
Language/descriptor at best, at this time.
Like any language, if the grammar is applied with correct syntax, the communication is useful. If not, the communication becomes confusing and flawed.
Grammar seems logical and precise, but does not turn a language into science.
The logical grammar, involves analysis and hence people who feel that somehow being called a science raises the status of astrology (as it is known currently) in society fall into that (mis)conceptual trap.
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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by Votive » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:52 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive

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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:47 am

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive
Yes -- this is presumably an extrapolation derived originally from BPHS in the later chapter where Sudarshan Kundali (sun, moon, ascendant superimposed) was described. Parashara gives it for signs and houses. Occupant>lord>associate(incl. aspects) etc.
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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by RishiRahul » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:09 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive

I have always found this KP principle to be correct; so is Dadas'.

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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:35 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive

I have always found this KP principle to be correct; so is Dadas'.

Rishi
I don't believe Votive was saying either/or!
More like Hapus vs alfonso?  :smt020

In fact the same algorithm that you are calling 'principle' works for vargas as well..

Being a cautious person and since beginners might be lurking, I would propose replacing "always" (100%) with 'often' or 'significantly often' ;-)

Like someone mentioned, "It is not uncertainty that bothers me, but the uncertainty that is often seen in occultism camouflaged as certainty"  :smt010
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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by RishiRahul » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:50 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive

I have always found this KP principle to be correct; so is Dadas'.

Rishi
I don't believe Votive was saying either/or!
More like Hapus vs alfonso?  :smt020

In fact the same algorithm that you are calling 'principle' works for vargas as well..

Being a cautious person and since beginners might be lurking, I would propose replacing "always" (100%) with 'often' or 'significantly often' ;-)

Like someone mentioned, "It is not uncertainty that bothers me, but the uncertainty that is often seen in occultism camouflaged as certainty"  :smt010

Ah! What I meant was that this KP idea was same as Dadas' in different words; in cautious language 'similar'.

If there was facebook like,I would have pressed 'like' for your this post. :)

Hope I remember the advise; my bad habit.

Rishi
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Re: A hint (take it or leave it...?) ;-)

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:38 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:A simple thing to watch for when ogling a chart...!

Planets are like sponges.

{Inhabitants} always colour the sponge...!

No aspect, or other sambandha (linkages) necessary...! ;-)

Love, Light, brevity?
I was rereading KP Reader. I quote, " Occupant of the constellation of a planet is stronger than the occupant. Tenant/occupant is stronger than the Lotd of the house"

votive

I have always found this KP principle to be correct; so is Dadas'.

Rishi
I don't believe Votive was saying either/or!
More like Hapus vs alfonso?  :smt020

In fact the same algorithm that you are calling 'principle' works for vargas as well..

Being a cautious person and since beginners might be lurking, I would propose replacing "always" (100%) with 'often' or 'significantly often' ;-)

Like someone mentioned, "It is not uncertainty that bothers me, but the uncertainty that is often seen in occultism camouflaged as certainty"  :smt010

Ah! What I meant was that this KP idea was same as Dadas' in different words; in cautious language 'similar'.

If there was facebook like,I would have pressed 'like' for your this post. :)

Hope I remember the advise; my bad habit.

Rishi
The extra 'clarification' was neither for you nor Votive, both of you being seasoned astrologers capable of reading between the lines (which s what we routinely do in astrology!) -- but mostly for 'lurkers' and casual samplers! I am getting more cautious in recent times. For instance I read someone misquoting me and saying, "Rohiniranjan (as per his primer) does not believe in transits!"

Have no clue what that casual-lurker misinterpreted or misunderstood.

Just what I need, now! Urban myths (which I always debunked!) being attributed to me!  :smt021
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Post by Votive » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:04 am

Like someone mentioned, "It is not uncertainty that bothers me, but the uncertainty that is often seen in occultism camouflaged as certainty"

So succinct,  yet it depicts the entire story.
The human instinct as well as frailty to take a few instances and create a grand generalisation.

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