Dimensions...!

For vedic astrology discussions and general questions.

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Votive
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Post by Votive » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:45 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote: Although in the jyotish framework and context, it is the slow (manda), lame, Saturn (Shanaishchar) and not the fastly moving moon (Ma) that we (infants) should hold the finger of, for he is often within our reach and generally around and available! Even when it is new-moon (= no moon!).  :smt004

Saturn is Niyama; Saturn is order; Saturn is routine and discipline; Saturn is symbolically ( not scientifically) the 'gravity' if we consider it in the realms of Physics and Cosmology.

No wonder, Saturn can be the finger to hold to when a toddler or the lathi/stick to hold when one is older and the knees (Makara) and the calves (Kumbha) are no longer ready to support.

And in the earlier context , Saturn is the natural Eleventh Lord, a choice, if any , to create our own chances and consequences!

votive
The eight astro-markers line up in each chart as life-forms performing a role in the Maya of Life(time). The drama changes rom one bead to another. As the mala (rosary) slips through the fingers of Kaal (time), the markers rearrange to perform their roles. This is not a static theme but one that changes from one maya to another.

As *wi$e* ones (?!) 'pointificate' ;-) chela forgets and like a kitten his attention flits from one dimension to another. With time, the kitten grows up and learns to not be driven by curiosity! Rather than pouncing on the object of curiosity, the *teenager* pounces on curiosity itself and then simply knows what meditation is really all about!

The state and not the object is paramount...!?!!
Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...

Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:15 pm

Votive wrote: ...

Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...
Let the ball of yarn unfurl with time.
It is after all a linear continuum, a string...?  ;-)
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:36 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote: ...

Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...
Let the ball of yarn unfurl with time.
It is after all a linear continuum, a string...?  ;-)
Patience, yes.
Wait for the ball rather than run for/with it.
Strings though can be more than a linear continuum, they can be  multiple and multidimensional...back to dimensions!

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:42 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote: ...

Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...
Let the ball of yarn unfurl with time.
It is after all a linear continuum, a string...?  ;-)
Which astrological  markers should support this though and what would be the triggers.
Guru and Shukra?

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:57 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote: ...

Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...
Let the ball of yarn unfurl with time.
It is after all a linear continuum, a string...?  ;-)
Patience, yes.
Wait for the ball rather than run for/with it.
Strings though can be more than a linear continuum, they can be  multiple and multidimensional...back to dimensions!
Just as amino acids can link up to form peptides in a globular formation as well as linear or branched or flat membranes etc, while still remaining amino acids, perhaps...?
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:59 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote: ...

Moments of doubts and uncertainty recur!!
For the chela lives in a world of illusions and glittering objects which appear to be the state itself...
Let the ball of yarn unfurl with time.
It is after all a linear continuum, a string...?  ;-)
Which astrological  markers should support this though and what would be the triggers.
Guru and Shukra?
Markers end where the string (unfurled ball) does...?

A new dimensional reality begins...?

Other opinions welcome since they must surely coexist...?
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:52 pm

Coexisting in many a forms and as many different labels and names but the substance the same, neither the end nor a beginning, just the resonating flow. Thankyou!

Rohiniranjan
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Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:32 pm

Votive wrote:Coexisting in many a forms and as many different labels and names but the substance the same, neither the end nor a beginning, just the resonating flow. Thankyou!
infinite circles make a never-ending spiral (Maya), which ultimately is simply a line...? ;-)
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:18 pm

Lines, spirals, circles, irregular forms all are the manifestation of the Natural Maya. And accepted with joy!

Decades ago, there was a beautiful movie called Chitralekha in which Meena Kumari sings....'apmaan rachaita ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraoge....when you deny maya or rachna..you are denying the Creator!!

Guru is ready to slip in Leo in  few weeks.

votive

Rohiniranjan
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Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:42 pm

<Jupiter? Shukra??...; support? Triggers??...;...>

The ball (skein...?) is how the individual journey must begin, Votive, and does, as we seers have seen? In our different roles and as files zip across our Karma-bhoomi (work-desk)

Beginning with the relatively-static dimension of space
Then Time comes in, or so it seems. Maybe it was always there, just our attention was lacking or distracted?

Then after we have walked the bridge a bit, we realize that the third dimension -- movement -- was constant companion. It withstood space and time!

INEVITABLY, for seer and seeker both, space will dissolve be it as dust or ashes.
As too the most in-your-face dimension of time. The most illusory of all three.
Only the third-movement shall accompany? For, it alone makes and documents the journey!

Clockwise or anticlockwise, direct or retrograde, time (and its movement) flows from I to V to IX (to XII) in each sequence of cosmic-symbiological journey. Yet XII must rise before I and so on as per the fixed assumption-axiom that the zodiac represents: the unalterable template which ascribes the roles and script for the actors that make the maya-drama come alive.

Space grows and shrinks, Time does as well? Journey remains constant even though goals and destinations (spatial-landmarks and goalposts/milestones) change for many, less so for others. Even those nativities whose misdirected attention and inattention seems to convince them that they are in a period of stagnation. It is because they have convinced themselves that earth (element) alone matters and status quo is the only option available. All other tattwas (elements) seem to embrace the third dimension of movement. Water, air almost naturally flows around obstacles and the journey continues. Even frozen waters (floating icebergs and drifting glaciers?)! Fire, the most wasteful of <energy> element tries to eat through obstacles but ultimately assumes its journey through spreading (wildfire).

Yet, Vidhata (Creator, Ma, etc) had to play with the kitten and keep it amused, distracted...? All four elements were given the tridimensional flavour of 'states'. Fire given its free reins as well its predisposition to burn through obstacles. Water too flows far and wide or enters the randhra (VIII) deeper and deeper. Air retains its distractable mobility...

So, it is not this or that planet that dons a constant role perhaps, but like any good actor, feeds its innate attributes to faithfully perform the role it must play on Mayavati's Leela-stage. Perhaps astrology should never have been taught or learned as a codicil of fixed and rigid rules and roles, but as a pulsating exercise that models itself after life itself? And not something else that many insist it is anything but...?

Happy journey!


Rohiniranjan
Rohiniranjan
========
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Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:21 pm

Votive wrote:Lines, spirals, circles, irregular forms all are the manifestation of the Natural Maya. And accepted with joy!

Decades ago, there was a beautiful movie called Chitralekha in which Meena Kumari sings....'apmaan rachaita ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraoge....when you deny maya or rachna..you are denying the Creator!!

Guru is ready to slip in Leo in  few weeks.

votive

... But what if, as Hawking-Mlodinow insist in The Grand Design, creation (rachna) alone is real and no *Entity* is behind it, other than the concept being a 'place-holder' and merely a creative construct of human mind (!) as it evolved with the passage of time? Goes counter to many fervent beliefs etc, but with nothing but anecdotes in our satchel, the platform remains shakey? For both parties, admittedly! Ma theories vs M theories??

Guru slips in and out of any given sign several times through the lifetimes of many individuals and co-locates with the other 'heavy' 2-4 times as well. Some might insist that sensationalism is at play? At least on a large scale of samplings of a collection of individual datapoints??

Humans have colourful imaginations, and it is clearly displayed in most communities, cultures and other silos of humanity who produced mythology of any kind??

The stories and settings and characters vary even when describing the identical>..?

Indians saw a demon bisected into rahu and ketu

The ancient Norse saw two wolves in their cosmic chase

Astrophysicists use far less colourful imagery to describe the phenomenon of eclipse.

Mythologies are constant (within a community/culture), and reverently guarded by its keepers of purity.

Science is irreverant (always has been?) and does not shy away from calling its dogmas simply that: dogma? In other words, it remains open to self-evaluation and evolution...?
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:06 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:<Jupiter? Shukra??...; support? Triggers??...;...>

The ball (skein...?) is how the individual journey must begin, Votive, and does, as we seers have seen? In our different roles and as files zip across our Karma-bhoomi (work-desk)

Beginning with the relatively-static dimension of space
Then Time comes in, or so it seems. Maybe it was always there, just our attention was lacking or distracted?

Then after we have walked the bridge a bit, we realize that the third dimension -- movement -- was constant companion. It withstood space and time!

INEVITABLY, for seer and seeker both, space will dissolve be it as dust or ashes.
As too the most in-your-face dimension of time. The most illusory of all three.
Only the third-movement shall accompany? For, it alone makes and documents the journey!

Clockwise or anticlockwise, direct or retrograde, time (and its movement) flows from I to V to IX (to XII) in each sequence of cosmic-symbiological journey. Yet XII must rise before I and so on as per the fixed assumption-axiom that the zodiac represents: the unalterable template which ascribes the roles and script for the actors that make the maya-drama come alive.

Space grows and shrinks, Time does as well? Journey remains constant even though goals and destinations (spatial-landmarks and goalposts/milestones) change for many, less so for others. Even those nativities whose misdirected attention and inattention seems to convince them that they are in a period of stagnation. It is because they have convinced themselves that earth (element) alone matters and status quo is the only option available. All other tattwas (elements) seem to embrace the third dimension of movement. Water, air almost naturally flows around obstacles and the journey continues. Even frozen waters (floating icebergs and drifting glaciers?)! Fire, the most wasteful of <energy> element tries to eat through obstacles but ultimately assumes its journey through spreading (wildfire).

Yet, Vidhata (Creator, Ma, etc) had to play with the kitten and keep it amused, distracted...? All four elements were given the tridimensional flavour of 'states'. Fire given its free reins as well its predisposition to burn through obstacles. Water too flows far and wide or enters the randhra (VIII) deeper and deeper. Air retains its distractable mobility...

So, it is not this or that planet that dons a constant role perhaps, but like any good actor, feeds its innate attributes to faithfully perform the role it must play on Mayavati's Leela-stage. Perhaps astrology should never have been taught or learned as a codicil of fixed and rigid rules and roles, but as a pulsating exercise that models itself after life itself? And not something else that many insist it is anything but...?

Happy journey!


Rohiniranjan
And the learning continues with each experience of the movement. The roles change rapidly diminishing previous images creating newer roles.

Perhaps, Astrology is that what you say only we understand it according to the roles, perceived or subjective.

votive

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:15 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:Lines, spirals, circles, irregular forms all are the manifestation of the Natural Maya. And accepted with joy!

Decades ago, there was a beautiful movie called Chitralekha in which Meena Kumari sings....'apmaan rachaita ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraoge....when you deny maya or rachna..you are denying the Creator!!

Guru is ready to slip in Leo in  few weeks.

votive

... But what if, as Hawking-Mlodinow insist in The Grand Design, creation (rachna) alone is real and no *Entity* is behind it, other than the concept being a 'place-holder' and merely a creative construct of human mind (!) as it evolved with the passage of time? Goes counter to many fervent beliefs etc, but with nothing but anecdotes in our satchel, the platform remains shakey? For both parties, admittedly! Ma theories vs M theories??

Guru slips in and out of any given sign several times through the lifetimes of many individuals and co-locates with the other 'heavy' 2-4 times as well. Some might insist that sensationalism is at play? At least on a large scale of samplings of a collection of individual datapoints??

Humans have colourful imaginations, and it is clearly displayed in most communities, cultures and other silos of humanity who produced mythology of any kind??

The stories and settings and characters vary even when describing the identical>..?

Indians saw a demon bisected into rahu and ketu

The ancient Norse saw two wolves in their cosmic chase

Astrophysicists use far less colourful imagery to describe the phenomenon of eclipse.

Mythologies are constant (within a community/culture), and reverently guarded by its keepers of purity.

Science is irreverant (always has been?) and does not shy away from calling its dogmas simply that: dogma? In other words, it remains open to self-evaluation and evolution...?
The icons are probably needed to give meaning and appreciation to human experience....

Science too keeps wanting to seek a final rigid simple solution to all observations and keeps surprising itself as the same experience is seen in a different perspective and dimensions.

Back to the routine !

votive

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:37 am

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:Lines, spirals, circles, irregular forms all are the manifestation of the Natural Maya. And accepted with joy!

Decades ago, there was a beautiful movie called Chitralekha in which Meena Kumari sings....'apmaan rachaita ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraoge....when you deny maya or rachna..you are denying the Creator!!

Guru is ready to slip in Leo in  few weeks.

votive

... But what if, as Hawking-Mlodinow insist in The Grand Design, creation (rachna) alone is real and no *Entity* is behind it, other than the concept being a 'place-holder' and merely a creative construct of human mind (!) as it evolved with the passage of time? Goes counter to many fervent beliefs etc, but with nothing but anecdotes in our satchel, the platform remains shakey? For both parties, admittedly! Ma theories vs M theories??

Guru slips in and out of any given sign several times through the lifetimes of many individuals and co-locates with the other 'heavy' 2-4 times as well. Some might insist that sensationalism is at play? At least on a large scale of samplings of a collection of individual datapoints??

Humans have colourful imaginations, and it is clearly displayed in most communities, cultures and other silos of humanity who produced mythology of any kind??

The stories and settings and characters vary even when describing the identical>..?

Indians saw a demon bisected into rahu and ketu

The ancient Norse saw two wolves in their cosmic chase

Astrophysicists use far less colourful imagery to describe the phenomenon of eclipse.

Mythologies are constant (within a community/culture), and reverently guarded by its keepers of purity.

Science is irreverant (always has been?) and does not shy away from calling its dogmas simply that: dogma? In other words, it remains open to self-evaluation and evolution...?
The icons are probably needed to give meaning and appreciation to human experience....

Science too keeps wanting to seek a final rigid simple solution to all observations and keeps surprising itself as the same experience is seen in a different perspective and dimensions.

Back to the routine !

votive
Nothing is permanent, not even routine, for as perception changes, so does reality!

Stars appear fixed, but as modern quantum rishis remind us while an electron or perhaps neutrino can be captured on paper, even that is a false permanence?

Perhaps That which we wish to capture as the ultimate permanence: GOD too perhaps is anything but...?Addendum: I realize that many readers and jyotishis might feel a bit uncomfortable with God being called anything but permanent, so I must clarify that my intention was not to question their personal beliefs and belief-systems!

The perpetuum mobile plays and so does its movement: the third dimension...?

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