Is Astrology a product of arrogance?

For vedic astrology discussions and general questions.

Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123, RishiRahul

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:37 pm

Talia wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Talia wrote:But, Pre-planning by whom? Does the recipient agree or is it another force?
If this is addressed to me, I do not understand the question.

Thanks,

RishiRahul
Sorry, my fault. You mentioned pre-planning and I just wondered whom you see as doing that?

Hi Talia,

Seeker wanting to preplan. The helper/advisor helping to preplan.

RishiRahul
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:55 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:In some ways, yes, astrology is a product of human arrogance for it seeks to "predict" life and events thus challenging nature, prakriti.
But so have been most human endeavors, physically and intellectually....
Thanks Votive!
But is this 'arrogance' a fragment of the 'divine-spark'* that is an important ingredient of the complex soup (although sometimes more like dalia or porridge?) that 'being human' really is...?

Is seeking  light, any light in the darkness of uncertainty not fuelled by self-preservation instinct?





*=since gods are not known for humility!

In my opinion, call it the 'divine spark' or call it trust or faith as Talia puts it, the belief in astrology in itself propels many of us to reach out to patterns weaved.
It transcends experential perception for the moment remains fluid mutating, changing with 'I' and all what is "Non I'' or 'thou', both impacting.

As an aside I was informed very recently that 'dalia' (being split ) is the best answer for the Nodes. A strange coincidence or more...but daliya is certainly more appropriate!

votive
The beauty (consistency) that is noticeable is when we open our minds to the possibility (reality?) in The Creation being holographic!

All mantic divinatory crafts then make sense and can be seen as siblings or rather replicates (like twins, quintuplets, etc).

In Sanatan dharma it is stated as yat pinde tat brahmandey or loosely translated as As above, so below or as earlier scientists found out: Crystals are composed of molecules and those in turn were composed of atoms.

Blobs of frozen moisture forming the snowflake!

Of course porridge (daliya) or dog's breakfast -- the beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder (consumer?)  :smt010

The ancient allegorical fable of nodes is, if we can distance ourselves from our conditionings, is one of extreme unfairness, is it not ;-)

Or simply deliberately and systematically-introduced errors and distortions ...?

So how does arrogance play a role in the birth and upbringing of the human (not divine!) pursuit and preoccupation of astrology?  :smt004
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:34 am

My observation is the moment a few predictions come true, the Jyotishi arrogates to him/herself the ability to understand Kaal.

I suppose you recall that ancient story of the jyotishi being "cursed"  by Ma Parvati for his arrogance of trying to become the Lord!

Probably it is human nature...afterall we are speaking o humans and not the 'divine ' within the humans!

votive

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:02 am

Votive wrote:My observation is the moment a few predictions come true, the Jyotishi arrogates to him/herself the ability to understand Kaal.

I suppose you recall that ancient story of the jyotishi being "cursed"  by Ma Parvati for his arrogance of trying to become the Lord!

Probably it is human nature...afterall we are speaking o humans and not the 'divine ' within the humans!

votive
Dear votive,

Yes, I agree very much with this. A huge challenge for many........
More so for mercury atmakarak astrologers

Rishi

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:07 am

Rishiji,

Perhaps that is what the messenger is trying to convey as atmakaraka!

votive

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:48 pm

The question was: Is astrology a product of arrogance?

Like the human game of "message relays" participants seem to have lost the context and began focussing on "Does astrology produce arrogance?" :-)

I was hoping that my reference to 'gEocentric' would help participants stay on track, but instead the anagram for the term: Egocentric seemed to have attracted the minds that participated! Although, truly speaking the two attributes, viz., arrogant and egocentric are not true synonyms!

And they say communication is easy! But, what if it is also true for other modalities of human perception, and the spectrum of possibilities within each of the senses of one human to another? Including the scent of a flower (from your other post! I will try to address that there).

So, dear friends, without relying on anecdotal, allegorical fables despite their (often not too obvious) wisdom or falling prey to single factor dependence (huge problem even for jyotishis!) can we instead focus on the opening question of this thread?

Is astrology [the framework] a product [not cause] of arrogance? <LOL>

L&L,

Rohiniranjan
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

User avatar
Talia
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:36 pm
Location: Wonderland

Post by Talia » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:54 pm

:smt005 &nbsp;Umm what was the question again &nbsp;:smt003

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:09 pm

Talia wrote::smt005  Umm what was the question again  :smt003
"Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then [do NOT]stop. "

{Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Said by the King to the White Rabbit} Text in square brackets mine! &nbsp;:smt020
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:42 pm

Votive wrote:Rishiji,

Perhaps that is what the messenger is trying to convey as atmakaraka!

votive

Dear votive,

Even if the messenger was trying to convey it or not, I have got a valid answer for 'myself' and mercury atmakrak; even if its by fluke!

Thanks guys,

RishiRahul
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:49 pm

Votive wrote:My observation is the moment a few predictions come true, the Jyotishi arrogates to him/herself the ability to understand Kaal.

I suppose you recall that ancient story of the jyotishi being "cursed"  by Ma Parvati for his arrogance of trying to become the Lord!

Probably it is human nature...afterall we are speaking o humans and not the 'divine ' within the humans!

votive

Whoever is led to believe that he/she can understand Kaal, is arrogant.

Kaal can engulf mortals.

Rishi
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:58 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:Rishiji,

Perhaps that is what the messenger is trying to convey as atmakaraka!

votive

Dear votive,

Even if the messenger was trying to convey it or not, I have got a valid answer for 'myself' and mercury atmakrak; even if its by fluke!

Thanks guys,

RishiRahul
But the question was and still remains, "Is astrology a product of arrogance?"
What answer did you get for that question?

Are you two good folks implying that atmakaraka gives all answers?

My understanding is that it embodies and encapsulates the questions! ;-)

The answers remain for the organism (J) to seek and find...!!

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:08 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:Rishiji,

Perhaps that is what the messenger is trying to convey as atmakaraka!

votive

Dear votive,

Even if the messenger was trying to convey it or not, I have got a valid answer for 'myself' and mercury atmakrak; even if its by fluke!

Thanks guys,

RishiRahul
But the question was and still remains, "Is astrology a product of arrogance?"
What answer did you get for that question?

Are you two good folks implying that atmakaraka gives all answers?

My understanding is that it embodies and encapsulates the questions! ;-)

The answers remain for the organism (J) to seek and find...!!

Dada,

The atmakarak certainly gives answers, like most dasas.

What I meant was that if the 16 born, has a mercury atmakrak in the later years, the challenge would possibly be this.

No answers received as regards to you your original question yet; though It is linked with 'geocentric'. :smt017

Rishi
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:27 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Votive wrote:Rishiji,

Perhaps that is what the messenger is trying to convey as atmakaraka!

votive

Dear votive,

Even if the messenger was trying to convey it or not, I have got a valid answer for 'myself' and mercury atmakrak; even if its by fluke!

Thanks guys,

RishiRahul
But the question was and still remains, "Is astrology a product of arrogance?"
What answer did you get for that question?

Are you two good folks implying that atmakaraka gives all answers?

My understanding is that it embodies and encapsulates the questions! ;-)

The answers remain for the organism (J) to seek and find...!!

Dada,

The atmakarak certainly gives answers, like most dasas.

What I meant was that if the 16 born, has a mercury atmakrak in the later years, the challenge would possibly be this.

No answers received as regards to you your original question yet; though It is linked with 'geocentric'. :smt017

Rishi
What is a "16 born"?
Are you implying that atmakarak only operates during later years? :smt017
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:49 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:The question was: Is astrology a product of arrogance?

Like the human game of "message relays" participants seem to have lost the context and began focussing on "Does astrology produce arrogance?" :-)

I was hoping that my reference to 'gEocentric' would help participants stay on track, but instead the anagram for the term: Egocentric seemed to have attracted the minds that participated! Although, truly speaking the two attributes, viz., arrogant and egocentric are not true synonyms!

And they say communication is easy! But, what if it is also true for other modalities of human perception, and the spectrum of possibilities within each of the senses of one human to another? Including the scent of a flower (from your other post! I will try to address that there).

So, dear friends, without relying on anecdotal, allegorical fables despite their (often not too obvious) wisdom or falling prey to single factor dependence (huge problem even for jyotishis!) can we instead focus on the opening question of this thread?

Is astrology [the framework] a product [not cause] of arrogance? <LOL>

L&L,

Rohiniranjan

I think we agreed to the answer that, yes, astrology is a product of (human) arrogance. Astrology originates from the geocentric perceptions of human observations and inferences.

votive

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:57 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:The question was: Is astrology a product of arrogance?

Like the human game of "message relays" participants seem to have lost the context and began focussing on "Does astrology produce arrogance?" :-)

I was hoping that my reference to 'gEocentric' would help participants stay on track, but instead the anagram for the term: Egocentric seemed to have attracted the minds that participated! Although, truly speaking the two attributes, viz., arrogant and egocentric are not true synonyms!

And they say communication is easy! But, what if it is also true for other modalities of human perception, and the spectrum of possibilities within each of the senses of one human to another? Including the scent of a flower (from your other post! I will try to address that there).

So, dear friends, without relying on anecdotal, allegorical fables despite their (often not too obvious) wisdom or falling prey to single factor dependence (huge problem even for jyotishis!) can we instead focus on the opening question of this thread?

Is astrology [the framework] a product [not cause] of arrogance? <LOL>

L&L,

Rohiniranjan
Ranjanda,

This is purely anecdotal!
I sense that the answer to your query is already with you, like the &nbsp;ancient Shastrarths and the Socratic dialogue , one has to come up with the precise answer!
Almost a decade of interacting with you, Sir!!

And ofcourse, Guru is in Leo.

votive

Post Reply

Return to “Vedic Astrology”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests