Gemstone remedials...?

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Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:21 pm

pranavg wrote: ...

Faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works and knowing why you believe it.

Blind faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works just because some learned / scholar or king or messiah of their respective religions or spiritual leader etc. has said.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Okay, but how do you know (vs. opinion, assumption, wishful thinking, *sounds-like-a-good-thing*, subjective judgment, etc) that Karma really exists and operates? And how something like wearing a gem-stone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree...? :-)
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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:15 pm

pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:A nice read indeed... :)
But I was expecting some discussions about gemstones to come up during the course which was not to be.

Also, speaking of Karma, even I believe the Law of Karma to be an irrefutable and an ultimate law as there are many questions about life that remain unanswered otherwise.

Hello,

Gemstones have got a lot of recognition as remedials! Even in daily life.
For gemini sun sign it is mercury. But since lagna is so and so it is X.
Since born on the 6th. it is Y. Since life path is 7 then it is A.
Since vimshottari dasa is so, then A.

At best choose the common=Y maybe.

I can only state a belief on this, just as Karma is.
But which method of choosing gemstone or even karma is best?

Do share your (1)thoughts and (2)Experience

RishiRahul

Hi RishiRahul ji,

Although lagna lord / rashi lord may play a role in deciding gemstones, I understand that an astrologer suggests a gem to a native based on the native's horoscope. I believe importance is also given to the functional nature of the planet. For a Sagitarrius ascendant (D-1), may be Manik be recommended as Sun is a functional benefic.

About recommending it based on Vimshottari dasha, I believe, it would be for a temporary period and that too after carefully considering both the positives and negatives indicated by the dasha lord. Although I do not have much experience about it, this is what makes sense to me.

Stating gemstone remedy just as a belief may be like undermining the science behind it. If an astrologer suggests something, it will be based on his / her knowledge and experience; not just a belief. It would rather be in the interest of the native that the astrologer does not suggest anything as I have learnt that the gemstones can have negative influence if wrongly chosen and no one would want to spend a fortune to attract negativity :)
So, recommendation based on belief surely would not be ethical, right?
That is why we novice learners reach to to you to gain some insight.

My question is, if functional benefic is the key factor (if there is something else please enlighten) and different varga charts have different functional benefics, how do we recommend a gemstone?
For marriage, if we are considering functional benefics in D-9 (correct me if I am wrong), they may or may not be appropriate in the context of other varga charts including D-1. Then, on what basis should the gemstone be recommended, if at all?

pranavg,

Do we also not see many wearing the same astrological gemstones for ornamental purposes? Particularly by the rich or very rich?....And their lives are not more disturbed than others.. or disturbed as others similarly?

Which possibly means or goes to establish that gemstone redials are not such a major factor as thought by many!

Gemstones for Lakshmithanas are best; and there are also other facors as mentioned.
K.P. way is different entirely.

Best to strike a balance with them adding experience & maturity to the choice.

RishiRahul

Hi,

I agree that gemstone remedials may possibly not be that major factor (but don't agree that they are not a factor), but speaking about those using it as an ornament, there is little that we can pinpoint at which clearly says their life is disturbed or otherwise. Basically, "being disturbed" is a relative thing.
A millionaire may possibly ignore (or may not even notice) if he loses his wallet containing a 1000 bucks but a pauper may be grossly "disturbed" even if he loses 100 bucks. So, getting disturbed is a relative term and the rich may also be getting the pinch of using a wrong gem as an ornament but don't realize it or may I say don't care... of course unless the damage is massive... may be health related or even life.
Again, as per my belief (and little that I have learnt yet), a wrongly chosen gemstone is disastrous irrespective of one's status in society. How disastrous it is, is the question... which decides how quickly the native realizes it...

Even if not a major factor, I hope, we (astrology readers) believe that it is a factor. For my question about varga charts, even if we temporarily speak of Lakshmistanas, every varga chart will have different ascendant (more or less), then how does one choose / recommend?
I have just begun gaining knowledge and lack both experience as well as maturity to understand the different angles and hence would like to know more from you all.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

Please see the sentence in bold above; which is, that You don't agree that they are not a major factor.

Why?

Is your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

RishiRahul
http://www.rishirahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:31 pm

My belief in the Law of Karma is only a 'belief'; influenced by what others' say; also few others' who are very reverred.

But again,sometimes I wonder that="When all think alike, then no one is thinking" may also be possible.

Suppose there is a Law of Karma, it is possible that it exists in a totally different plane than the one we can imagine.

Adam & Eve lived once upon a time; and since only they were there, they did not have any experience of 'death'.
Suppose suddenly Adam died suddenly. What would Eve believe? Certainly not that he is 'dead'!
Why? because she is not aware of the concept of 'death' - Strange but possible.

RishiRahul

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:27 pm

one anecdote being used to prove another anecdotal matter is like building a castle on the shifting sands of beliefs and faiths and suchlike!
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Post by pranavg » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:58 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
pranavg wrote: ...

Faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works and knowing why you believe it.

Blind faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works just because some learned / scholar or king or messiah of their respective religions or spiritual leader etc. has said.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Okay, but how do you know (vs. opinion, assumption, wishful thinking, *sounds-like-a-good-thing*, subjective judgment, etc) that Karma really exists and operates? And how something like wearing a gem-stone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree...? :-)
Now, we have started mixing things  :smt018
Here, I was giving an illustrative example about faith as you wanted one. Gem therapy is a separate matter.

Belief 1: "Law of Karma" exists
Belief 2: "Gemology", a science having Astrology at its base exists.
Belief 3: Wearing a gemstone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree

I believe in 1 and 2 based on my knowledge (through reading, received as guidance, intuition etc.) and could understand based on my limited intellect.  It is a faith (as against blind faith :-)) as I could see some rationale behind it.
That is what I referred to "believing in something" and "knowing why you believe it"

For Belief 3, I am trying to understand it from learned gurus like you. Default value has to be 1 or 0. So, I have chosen to believe it until it is proven otherwise. Then based on your inputs / guidance and learning from other sources, one day I can conclusively (again limited to me) say that I have faith or otherwise.

Regarding your earlier point, how do I know Karma exists / operates?
Of course, no one can claim so as we do not have visibility beyond 1 life.
All we can see is at a physical level... and so learn and have experienced Newton's law. Similar thing existing in other planes is beyond our capacity to imagine and thus to readily believe until some one proves it in a laboratory some day. eg: Speed of light, gravitational force, and more recently gravitational waves.

It is about faith and I was giving an example to differentiate faith and blind faith...
If you believe it works, you should know why you believe so (need not convince / explain others).
If you don't believe it works, fair enough. But you should know why you believe so.
That was my limited point :-)

When 2 conflicting beliefs come face-2-face, that is when we can learn and evolve.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:44 am

Post by pranavg » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:06 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:A nice read indeed... :)
But I was expecting some discussions about gemstones to come up during the course which was not to be.

Also, speaking of Karma, even I believe the Law of Karma to be an irrefutable and an ultimate law as there are many questions about life that remain unanswered otherwise.

Hello,

Gemstones have got a lot of recognition as remedials! Even in daily life.
For gemini sun sign it is mercury. But since lagna is so and so it is X.
Since born on the 6th. it is Y. Since life path is 7 then it is A.
Since vimshottari dasa is so, then A.

At best choose the common=Y maybe.

I can only state a belief on this, just as Karma is.
But which method of choosing gemstone or even karma is best?

Do share your (1)thoughts and (2)Experience

RishiRahul

Hi RishiRahul ji,

Although lagna lord / rashi lord may play a role in deciding gemstones, I understand that an astrologer suggests a gem to a native based on the native's horoscope. I believe importance is also given to the functional nature of the planet. For a Sagitarrius ascendant (D-1), may be Manik be recommended as Sun is a functional benefic.

About recommending it based on Vimshottari dasha, I believe, it would be for a temporary period and that too after carefully considering both the positives and negatives indicated by the dasha lord. Although I do not have much experience about it, this is what makes sense to me.

Stating gemstone remedy just as a belief may be like undermining the science behind it. If an astrologer suggests something, it will be based on his / her knowledge and experience; not just a belief. It would rather be in the interest of the native that the astrologer does not suggest anything as I have learnt that the gemstones can have negative influence if wrongly chosen and no one would want to spend a fortune to attract negativity :)
So, recommendation based on belief surely would not be ethical, right?
That is why we novice learners reach to to you to gain some insight.

My question is, if functional benefic is the key factor (if there is something else please enlighten) and different varga charts have different functional benefics, how do we recommend a gemstone?
For marriage, if we are considering functional benefics in D-9 (correct me if I am wrong), they may or may not be appropriate in the context of other varga charts including D-1. Then, on what basis should the gemstone be recommended, if at all?

pranavg,

Do we also not see many wearing the same astrological gemstones for ornamental purposes? Particularly by the rich or very rich?....And their lives are not more disturbed than others.. or disturbed as others similarly?

Which possibly means or goes to establish that gemstone redials are not such a major factor as thought by many!

Gemstones for Lakshmithanas are best; and there are also other facors as mentioned.
K.P. way is different entirely.

Best to strike a balance with them adding experience & maturity to the choice.

RishiRahul

Hi,

I agree that gemstone remedials may possibly not be that major factor (but don't agree that they are not a factor), but speaking about those using it as an ornament, there is little that we can pinpoint at which clearly says their life is disturbed or otherwise. Basically, "being disturbed" is a relative thing.
A millionaire may possibly ignore (or may not even notice) if he loses his wallet containing a 1000 bucks but a pauper may be grossly "disturbed" even if he loses 100 bucks. So, getting disturbed is a relative term and the rich may also be getting the pinch of using a wrong gem as an ornament but don't realize it or may I say don't care... of course unless the damage is massive... may be health related or even life.
Again, as per my belief (and little that I have learnt yet), a wrongly chosen gemstone is disastrous irrespective of one's status in society. How disastrous it is, is the question... which decides how quickly the native realizes it...

Even if not a major factor, I hope, we (astrology readers) believe that it is a factor. For my question about varga charts, even if we temporarily speak of Lakshmistanas, every varga chart will have different ascendant (more or less), then how does one choose / recommend?
I have just begun gaining knowledge and lack both experience as well as maturity to understand the different angles and hence would like to know more from you all.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

Please see the sentence in bold above; which is, that You don't agree that they are not a major factor.

Why?

Is your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

RishiRahul
All I am saying is I don't know how major a factor they are.
I believe they are a factor as I just mentioned even in my previous post.
It is a belief for me and I have chosen to set its default value as 1 until proven otherwise.

It is purely based on the scientific explanations that I have read which I could not deny outright.
I am positively trying to make sense out of it by application of our science of Astrology.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

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Post by RishiRahul » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:01 pm

pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:A nice read indeed... :)
But I was expecting some discussions about gemstones to come up during the course which was not to be.

Also, speaking of Karma, even I believe the Law of Karma to be an irrefutable and an ultimate law as there are many questions about life that remain unanswered otherwise.

Hello,

Gemstones have got a lot of recognition as remedials! Even in daily life.
For gemini sun sign it is mercury. But since lagna is so and so it is X.
Since born on the 6th. it is Y. Since life path is 7 then it is A.
Since vimshottari dasa is so, then A.

At best choose the common=Y maybe.

I can only state a belief on this, just as Karma is.
But which method of choosing gemstone or even karma is best?

Do share your (1)thoughts and (2)Experience

RishiRahul

Hi RishiRahul ji,

Although lagna lord / rashi lord may play a role in deciding gemstones, I understand that an astrologer suggests a gem to a native based on the native's horoscope. I believe importance is also given to the functional nature of the planet. For a Sagitarrius ascendant (D-1), may be Manik be recommended as Sun is a functional benefic.

About recommending it based on Vimshottari dasha, I believe, it would be for a temporary period and that too after carefully considering both the positives and negatives indicated by the dasha lord. Although I do not have much experience about it, this is what makes sense to me.

Stating gemstone remedy just as a belief may be like undermining the science behind it. If an astrologer suggests something, it will be based on his / her knowledge and experience; not just a belief. It would rather be in the interest of the native that the astrologer does not suggest anything as I have learnt that the gemstones can have negative influence if wrongly chosen and no one would want to spend a fortune to attract negativity :)
So, recommendation based on belief surely would not be ethical, right?
That is why we novice learners reach to to you to gain some insight.

My question is, if functional benefic is the key factor (if there is something else please enlighten) and different varga charts have different functional benefics, how do we recommend a gemstone?
For marriage, if we are considering functional benefics in D-9 (correct me if I am wrong), they may or may not be appropriate in the context of other varga charts including D-1. Then, on what basis should the gemstone be recommended, if at all?

pranavg,

Do we also not see many wearing the same astrological gemstones for ornamental purposes? Particularly by the rich or very rich?....And their lives are not more disturbed than others.. or disturbed as others similarly?

Which possibly means or goes to establish that gemstone redials are not such a major factor as thought by many!

Gemstones for Lakshmithanas are best; and there are also other facors as mentioned.
K.P. way is different entirely.

Best to strike a balance with them adding experience & maturity to the choice.

RishiRahul

Hi,

I agree that gemstone remedials may possibly not be that major factor (but don't agree that they are not a factor), but speaking about those using it as an ornament, there is little that we can pinpoint at which clearly says their life is disturbed or otherwise. Basically, "being disturbed" is a relative thing.
A millionaire may possibly ignore (or may not even notice) if he loses his wallet containing a 1000 bucks but a pauper may be grossly "disturbed" even if he loses 100 bucks. So, getting disturbed is a relative term and the rich may also be getting the pinch of using a wrong gem as an ornament but don't realize it or may I say don't care... of course unless the damage is massive... may be health related or even life.
Again, as per my belief (and little that I have learnt yet), a wrongly chosen gemstone is disastrous irrespective of one's status in society. How disastrous it is, is the question... which decides how quickly the native realizes it...

Even if not a major factor, I hope, we (astrology readers) believe that it is a factor. For my question about varga charts, even if we temporarily speak of Lakshmistanas, every varga chart will have different ascendant (more or less), then how does one choose / recommend?
I have just begun gaining knowledge and lack both experience as well as maturity to understand the different angles and hence would like to know more from you all.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

Please see the sentence in bold above; which is, that You don't agree that they are not a major factor.

Why?

Is your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

RishiRahul
All I am saying is I don't know how major a factor they are.
I believe they are a factor as I just mentioned even in my previous post.
It is a belief for me and I have chosen to set its default value as 1 until proven otherwise.

It is purely based on the scientific explanations that I have read which I could not deny outright.
I am positively trying to make sense out of it by application of our science of Astrology.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
I have already given my view regarding remedial (refer my mention of Lakshmisthanas in this thread).

You chose not to mention if your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

Okay how can the remedial belief be established/proved? or disproved?
I mean how would you like me to help?

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Post by RishiRahul » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:34 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:one anecdote being used to prove another anecdotal matter is like building a castle on the shifting sands of beliefs and faiths and suchlike!

Then let us leave out the anecdotes. The rest is just a 'possibility' in any case.
The way we view Karma may be correct or may not be so; also may be in a different plane than the usual thought of.

Rishi

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:51 pm

You mean random chaos that sometimes seems like a pattern, but when 'tested or questioned; vanishes in the mystic ocean: the playground of Maya (illusion) and its Leela (game)?
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Post by RishiRahul » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:38 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:You mean random chaos that sometimes seems like a pattern, but when 'tested or questioned; vanishes in the mystic ocean: the playground of Maya (illusion) and its Leela (game)?

Maybe. Or in two different planes/levels in the space time continuum;
and we think that it happens in the same plane.

Maya again.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:17 pm

RishiRahul wrote: ...
Maybe. Or in two different planes/levels in the space time continuum;
and we think that it happens in the same plane.

Maya again.

Rishi
... Source being: blind faith, faith, belief, guessology, knowing (experiential) or a porridge of it all (all of these being fairly common...!)?  :smt004
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:58 pm

pranavg wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
pranavg wrote: ...

Faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works and knowing why you believe it.

Blind faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works just because some learned / scholar or king or messiah of their respective religions or spiritual leader etc. has said.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Okay, but how do you know (vs. opinion, assumption, wishful thinking, *sounds-like-a-good-thing*, subjective judgment, etc) that Karma really exists and operates? And how something like wearing a gem-stone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree...? :-)
Now, we have started mixing things  :smt018
Here, I was giving an illustrative example about faith as you wanted one. Gem therapy is a separate matter.

Belief 1: "Law of Karma" exists
Belief 2: "Gemology", a science having Astrology at its base exists.
Belief 3: Wearing a gemstone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree

I believe in 1 and 2 based on my knowledge (through reading, received as guidance, intuition etc.) and could understand based on my limited intellect.  It is a faith (as against blind faith :-)) as I could see some rationale behind it.
That is what I referred to "believing in something" and "knowing why you believe it"

For Belief 3, I am trying to understand it from learned gurus like you. Default value has to be 1 or 0. So, I have chosen to believe it until it is proven otherwise. Then based on your inputs / guidance and learning from other sources, one day I can conclusively (again limited to me) say that I have faith or otherwise.

Regarding your earlier point, how do I know Karma exists / operates?
Of course, no one can claim so as we do not have visibility beyond 1 life.
All we can see is at a physical level... and so learn and have experienced Newton's law. Similar thing existing in other planes is beyond our capacity to imagine and thus to readily believe until some one proves it in a laboratory some day. eg: Speed of light, gravitational force, and more recently gravitational waves.

It is about faith and I was giving an example to differentiate faith and blind faith...
If you believe it works, you should know why you believe so (need not convince / explain others).
If you don't believe it works, fair enough. But you should know why you believe so.
That was my limited point :-)

When 2 conflicting beliefs come face-2-face, that is when we can learn and evolve.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Actually, there is no 'mixing' as you seem to think. The progression if you insist that these matters follow Newtonian laws has to be factor A (action) leading to a + or - imprint  (factor K) which then shows up in the astrological signature which astrology helps one decipher. If wearing a gemstone (G) then blocks or reverses the negative imprint (why else wear it?) then essentially 'G' is capable of overpowering 'K'. All are related in this framework or paradigm?

How is 'gemology' in the context of this e-conversation a *science*? You must have heard that a mountain of anecdotes and claims cannot turn into data, or treated as real evidence. Now, also note that while gemstones have been listed in fundamental texts on jyotish, wearing those has not been suggested. It is a later addition, presumably when kings and rich people began supporting astrologers and hiring those in their court, etc. Mind you, there are many claims and anecdotes revolving around crystals (including gemstones naturally) and in mystical lore there exist also magical protocols for energizing these, but at that point matters move into a spiritual-quantum realm and the Newtonian logic perhaps ill-serves in describing what is going on. All very fascinating as most of occultism is but essentially what you call blind faith. My preference would be to call these unsubstantiated though fascinating and even fantastic mental-stuff. And whether they call all these science, super-science or higher, does not necessarily make these so. In fact astrology (all divinations) itself is not on stable grounds. Interestingly, people hold this belief that astrology does not fail, but astrologer does. How does one judge the prowess of astrology independently of the astrologer...? One confounding factor exists too because there is no cold and hard documentation of individuals (knowingly or subconsciously) using faculties beyond purely astrology. Now THAT is what I call the mixed bag of goodies ;-)
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Post by pranavg » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:59 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
pranavg wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
pranavg wrote: ...

Faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works and knowing why you believe it.

Blind faith is believing that "Law of Karma" works just because some learned / scholar or king or messiah of their respective religions or spiritual leader etc. has said.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Okay, but how do you know (vs. opinion, assumption, wishful thinking, *sounds-like-a-good-thing*, subjective judgment, etc) that Karma really exists and operates? And how something like wearing a gem-stone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree...? :-)
Now, we have started mixing things  :smt018
Here, I was giving an illustrative example about faith as you wanted one. Gem therapy is a separate matter.

Belief 1: "Law of Karma" exists
Belief 2: "Gemology", a science having Astrology at its base exists.
Belief 3: Wearing a gemstone would abate and reverse its (Karma's) decree

I believe in 1 and 2 based on my knowledge (through reading, received as guidance, intuition etc.) and could understand based on my limited intellect.  It is a faith (as against blind faith :-)) as I could see some rationale behind it.
That is what I referred to "believing in something" and "knowing why you believe it"

For Belief 3, I am trying to understand it from learned gurus like you. Default value has to be 1 or 0. So, I have chosen to believe it until it is proven otherwise. Then based on your inputs / guidance and learning from other sources, one day I can conclusively (again limited to me) say that I have faith or otherwise.

Regarding your earlier point, how do I know Karma exists / operates?
Of course, no one can claim so as we do not have visibility beyond 1 life.
All we can see is at a physical level... and so learn and have experienced Newton's law. Similar thing existing in other planes is beyond our capacity to imagine and thus to readily believe until some one proves it in a laboratory some day. eg: Speed of light, gravitational force, and more recently gravitational waves.

It is about faith and I was giving an example to differentiate faith and blind faith...
If you believe it works, you should know why you believe so (need not convince / explain others).
If you don't believe it works, fair enough. But you should know why you believe so.
That was my limited point :-)

When 2 conflicting beliefs come face-2-face, that is when we can learn and evolve.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
Actually, there is no 'mixing' as you seem to think. The progression if you insist that these matters follow Newtonian laws has to be factor A (action) leading to a + or - imprint  (factor K) which then shows up in the astrological signature which astrology helps one decipher. If wearing a gemstone (G) then blocks or reverses the negative imprint (why else wear it?) then essentially 'G' is capable of overpowering 'K'. All are related in this framework or paradigm?

How is 'gemology' in the context of this e-conversation a *science*? You must have heard that a mountain of anecdotes and claims cannot turn into data, or treated as real evidence. Now, also note that while gemstones have been listed in fundamental texts on jyotish, wearing those has not been suggested. It is a later addition, presumably when kings and rich people began supporting astrologers and hiring those in their court, etc. Mind you, there are many claims and anecdotes revolving around crystals (including gemstones naturally) and in mystical lore there exist also magical protocols for energizing these, but at that point matters move into a spiritual-quantum realm and the Newtonian logic perhaps ill-serves in describing what is going on. All very fascinating as most of occultism is but essentially what you call blind faith. My preference would be to call these unsubstantiated though fascinating and even fantastic mental-stuff. And whether they call all these science, super-science or higher, does not necessarily make these so. In fact astrology (all divinations) itself is not on stable grounds. Interestingly, people hold this belief that astrology does not fail, but astrologer does. How does one judge the prowess of astrology independently of the astrologer...? One confounding factor exists too because there is no cold and hard documentation of individuals (knowingly or subconsciously) using faculties beyond purely astrology. Now THAT is what I call the mixed bag of goodies ;-)
Well!!! I am not saying that they are not related. They certainly are.
When I said mixing things, I meant the illustrative examples that I had put forth were getting mixed (extrapolated) unknowingly. And Newton...
Let us spare him here before he regrets stating the law  :smt002

I am not insisting that these matters follow Newtonian laws... in fact the other way...kind of. The Newton's law is a translation (more or less) of the Law of Karma... but limited to the physical plane; i.e. a subset (in 1 plane) of the universal law of Karma which we discuss at the energy level.
As we see / hear / experience things in the physical plane, we could understand and believe the Newton's law but in the higher plane, we are struggling to make enough sense out of it.


Regarding 'G' overpowering 'K', it is not about reversing or blocking the negative imprint as I understand (and believe :-)), it is about enhancing the positive imprint. Gems are known (as mentioned in texts on Jyotish) to enhance the powers of benefics as against lessening the influence of malefics. You may correct me if I am wrong here.
So, translating this in our context, I would not say 'G' can overpower 'K'.
I would rather say strengthening of positive imprint can empower us to deal with the negative imprint in a better way.

About mentioning it as science, I agree with you. We do not know how and when it came into practice and the study is also at a nascent stage to make any claim. But, if it is not pondered over we cannot expect it to evolve.
So, I believe, having faith and trying to make sense out of what is mentioned in fundamental texts on Jyotish (and not blindly believing astrologers for the reasons rightly mentioned by you) is certainly on cards. Of course, not looking at it yet as an ultimate remedy on past Karma.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

pranavg
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Post by pranavg » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:18 am

RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
pranavg wrote:A nice read indeed... :)
But I was expecting some discussions about gemstones to come up during the course which was not to be.

Also, speaking of Karma, even I believe the Law of Karma to be an irrefutable and an ultimate law as there are many questions about life that remain unanswered otherwise.

Hello,

Gemstones have got a lot of recognition as remedials! Even in daily life.
For gemini sun sign it is mercury. But since lagna is so and so it is X.
Since born on the 6th. it is Y. Since life path is 7 then it is A.
Since vimshottari dasa is so, then A.

At best choose the common=Y maybe.

I can only state a belief on this, just as Karma is.
But which method of choosing gemstone or even karma is best?

Do share your (1)thoughts and (2)Experience

RishiRahul

Hi RishiRahul ji,

Although lagna lord / rashi lord may play a role in deciding gemstones, I understand that an astrologer suggests a gem to a native based on the native's horoscope. I believe importance is also given to the functional nature of the planet. For a Sagitarrius ascendant (D-1), may be Manik be recommended as Sun is a functional benefic.

About recommending it based on Vimshottari dasha, I believe, it would be for a temporary period and that too after carefully considering both the positives and negatives indicated by the dasha lord. Although I do not have much experience about it, this is what makes sense to me.

Stating gemstone remedy just as a belief may be like undermining the science behind it. If an astrologer suggests something, it will be based on his / her knowledge and experience; not just a belief. It would rather be in the interest of the native that the astrologer does not suggest anything as I have learnt that the gemstones can have negative influence if wrongly chosen and no one would want to spend a fortune to attract negativity :)
So, recommendation based on belief surely would not be ethical, right?
That is why we novice learners reach to to you to gain some insight.

My question is, if functional benefic is the key factor (if there is something else please enlighten) and different varga charts have different functional benefics, how do we recommend a gemstone?
For marriage, if we are considering functional benefics in D-9 (correct me if I am wrong), they may or may not be appropriate in the context of other varga charts including D-1. Then, on what basis should the gemstone be recommended, if at all?

pranavg,

Do we also not see many wearing the same astrological gemstones for ornamental purposes? Particularly by the rich or very rich?....And their lives are not more disturbed than others.. or disturbed as others similarly?

Which possibly means or goes to establish that gemstone redials are not such a major factor as thought by many!

Gemstones for Lakshmithanas are best; and there are also other facors as mentioned.
K.P. way is different entirely.

Best to strike a balance with them adding experience & maturity to the choice.

RishiRahul

Hi,

I agree that gemstone remedials may possibly not be that major factor (but don't agree that they are not a factor), but speaking about those using it as an ornament, there is little that we can pinpoint at which clearly says their life is disturbed or otherwise. Basically, "being disturbed" is a relative thing.
A millionaire may possibly ignore (or may not even notice) if he loses his wallet containing a 1000 bucks but a pauper may be grossly "disturbed" even if he loses 100 bucks. So, getting disturbed is a relative term and the rich may also be getting the pinch of using a wrong gem as an ornament but don't realize it or may I say don't care... of course unless the damage is massive... may be health related or even life.
Again, as per my belief (and little that I have learnt yet), a wrongly chosen gemstone is disastrous irrespective of one's status in society. How disastrous it is, is the question... which decides how quickly the native realizes it...

Even if not a major factor, I hope, we (astrology readers) believe that it is a factor. For my question about varga charts, even if we temporarily speak of Lakshmistanas, every varga chart will have different ascendant (more or less), then how does one choose / recommend?
I have just begun gaining knowledge and lack both experience as well as maturity to understand the different angles and hence would like to know more from you all.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

Please see the sentence in bold above; which is, that You don't agree that they are not a major factor.

Why?

Is your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

RishiRahul
All I am saying is I don't know how major a factor they are.
I believe they are a factor as I just mentioned even in my previous post.
It is a belief for me and I have chosen to set its default value as 1 until proven otherwise.

It is purely based on the scientific explanations that I have read which I could not deny outright.
I am positively trying to make sense out of it by application of our science of Astrology.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav
I have already given my view regarding remedial (refer my mention of Lakshmisthanas in this thread).

You chose not to mention if your belief on this based on 'experience', or 'heresay', or 'others example or explanation', or something else?

Okay how can the remedial belief be established/proved? or disproved?
I mean how would you like me to help?

RishiRahul
Hi,

I referred your post mentioning Lakshmistanas, actually I had the related question right there in my preceding and succeeding post... :-)

Different varga charts are likely to have different ascendants and consequently different functional benefics, how do we recommend a gemstone then?
For marriage, if we are considering functional benefics in D-9 (correct me if I am wrong), they may or may not be appropriate in the context of other varga charts including D-1. Then, on what basis should the gemstone be recommended, if at all?

You may also pitch in with other considerations (apart from Laksmisthanas) that you believe are significant so that I can explore them further.

And I did mention earlier that my belief is purely based on the explanations that I have read in books by renowned authors which I could not deny outright. I am too novice to have enough experience on this and the hearsay does not fit into my scheme of things.

Thanks and regards,
Pranav

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RishiRahul
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Post by RishiRahul » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:10 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote: ...
Maybe. Or in two different planes/levels in the space time continuum;
and we think that it happens in the same plane.

Maya again.

Rishi
... Source being: blind faith, faith, belief, guessology, knowing (experiential) or a porridge of it all (all of these being fairly common...!)?  :smt004

I just mentioned a possibility based on a logic arising in my mind; also heard some intelligent well versed and interested in philosophy & mathematics mention it to me.

Not knowing through experience.
blind faith = no. as its a possibility.
faith = some faith in the possibility.
belief= some belief in the possibility.
guessology = My & few others guesses.
knowing (experiential)= no experience

RishiRahul

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