Heisenberg's curse? :-(

For vedic astrology discussions and general questions.

Moderators: shalimar123, eye_of_tiger, suzisco, RishiRahul

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Heisenberg's curse? :-(

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:19 pm

The act of observation can change the observation (as in test results)?

When someone suggests a simple solution or technique in astrology using a one or two factor transit hit etc., even when the credibility of the individual is not under question, testing in a reliable test-sample (10-20 charts) by an independent tester seems to reveal a poor to miserable outcome.

In most such instances the blame cannot be placed on ayanamsha preferences or house divisions etc.

Probably for such quickie astrological paradigms the act of 'testing' (observation) itself modifies the applicability of the rule or perhaps it is the curse of Mr. Murphy or Heisenberg (Uncertainty principle fame) that even Mighty Astrology is unable to escape from?

Is there an effective remedy,  gemstone or amulet or incantation, that nullifies and protects against such an infernal Quantum Curse...?  :smt017

:smt018
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:39 am

A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:43 pm

Votive wrote:A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive
Haha!
Which one sees? Outer or inner jyotishi ;-)
Happy are those that simply wear the suit and don't have to pack it in a tight and rigid box aka a mechanic's tool-kit...!
:smt004
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

User avatar
Talia
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:36 pm
Location: Wonderland

Post by Talia » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:00 pm

I had never heard of Heisenberg until Breaking Bad!!
But, to apply your principle to for instance tarot reading means that basically the very giving of the reading changes the outcome of the reading.
I wonder, withmy blonde brain, are you saying that because one cannot measure the accurate position of a planet then one cannot be sure where it is and so the astrology reading will be off?

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:42 pm

Talia wrote:I had never heard of Heisenberg until Breaking Bad!!
But, to apply your principle to for instance tarot reading means that basically the very giving of the reading changes the outcome of the reading.
I wonder, withmy blonde brain, are you saying that because one cannot measure the accurate position of a planet then one cannot be sure where it is and so the astrology reading will be off?
No  :smt009

what is 'blonde brain'  :smt017
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

User avatar
Talia
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:36 pm
Location: Wonderland

Post by Talia » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:32 pm

oh dear, you just proved that Blonde brain exists!

oooh I have an idea, in UK culture we have types, now in a country where most hair colour is either dark, or greying then white, you may not have come across the typification of a blonde or a redhead!

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:57 pm

Talia wrote:oh dear, you just proved that Blonde brain exists!

oooh I have an idea, in UK culture we have types, now in a country where most hair colour is either dark, or greying then white, you may not have come across the typification of a blonde or a redhead!
I know about blonde, brunette, redhead, mousy blonde, salt and pepper, grey, white, etc but in reference to hair colour, Talia. All brains are of the same colour though.  :smt017
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

User avatar
eye_of_tiger
Site Admin
Posts: 8177
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Contact:

Post by eye_of_tiger » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:59 pm

Here in Australia there is the chauvinistic attitude among some men that women with blonde hair are always fun to date, but that they have no brain.

I feel that Talia is saying here that by not always understanding everything that you write, that she is showing you that she has the brain of a typical woman with blonde hair, according to these chauvinistic and sexist individuals who call themselves men.

She is making a joke about this to help lighten up the conversation, and to be able to have a little fun with us at her own expense.
All brains are of the same colour though.
See "What color is our brain?"

https://www.sharecare.com/health/brain/ ... -our-brain

Click on more, to see the entire article.

EoT

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:55 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:Here in Australia there is the chauvinistic attitude among some men that women with blonde hair are always fun to date, but that they have no brain.

I feel that Talia is saying here that by not always understanding everything that you write, that she is showing you that she has the brain of a typical woman with blonde hair, according to these chauvinistic and sexist individuals who call themselves men.

She is making a joke about this to help lighten up the conversation, and to be able to have a little fun with us at her own expense.
All brains are of the same colour though.
See "What color is our brain?"

https://www.sharecare.com/health/brain/ ... -our-brain

Click on more, to see the entire article.

EoT
AHH...! Those stereotypes, our wonderful friend Talia was talking about!  :smt004

For the record, for the past few decades t hat I have been blessed (destiny?) to interact with women in many roles that life brings along, I have found out that beauty is truly skin-deep and hair-colour does not seem to be correlated with what it (or hair for that matter?) truly represents, with the GIFT (brain) that those envelope? Whether naturally or through the magic of potentially noxious dyes and coloring agents? (Societal demands that women in throngs are now revoting against?), here, there, everywhere? MA-POWER??

And yet, I am astounded by this obsession of infants and little children with the wrappings -- while entirely ignoring the PRESENT which is the crucial essence?

An important milestone of growth: When the child shuns the wrappings while remaining focused on the CONTENT...?

Am I sounding too OLD and boring? <LOL>

User avatar
Talia
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:36 pm
Location: Wonderland

Post by Talia » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:10 am

OMG I nearly spat my tea out all over the screen what are you two like together?  I read thongs not throngs too, very confusing till I re-read it.

never boring &nbsp;but old? &nbsp;Well that is all relative to what speed you are travelling and where you are lol!

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:36 am

<-=O=->
Last edited by Rohiniranjan on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:05 pm

Talia wrote:...
But, to apply your principle to for instance tarot reading means that basically the very giving of the reading changes the outcome of the reading.
...
Hello Talia,

Just so I do not get embroiled in any copyrights issues :-(, it is not "[my] principle", but Heienberg's.

That and hair colors and bleach (noxious!) etc aside, you do raise an interesting angle on your favourite pursuit of Tarot. Another gift of symbolism that humans received during their evolution.

Though approaches and techniques differ, widely I presume, between astrology and tarot-reading, one dfference could be that astrology is more passive in a way than tarot. The former generally uses an epoch which has already passed (even in a horary setting) and so the placements of indicators (sun in cancer for instance) and how they will move (progressions and transits) are already cast in stone, in a manner of speaking with the only active part being the analysis, synthesis and interpretation, etc. Here, we can expect more perturbation, movement, fluidity, and hence more room for Messers Heisenberg and Murphy to do their number.

OTOH, tarot seems to be more fluid. The cards (symbols) are actually generated and then the 'arrangements' get analysed, symbols decoded and interpreted for being synthesised into a reading. Understandably, one may argue that the Divine hand (in most cases if not all) is over-seeing the whole sequence from shufflng onwards or perhaps from the seeker approching a reader, but hopefully you can see the fluidity (like movable signs in astrology?) in the Tarot process. I reckon that there is more there that could attract the Ministers of Uncertainty?

None of this hopefully matters to the practitioners, but some of us who are curious about the WHYs and HOWs behind these incredible gifts of evolution and engage in testing and research or find joy in such pursuits might benefit from paying attention to these *angles* and perspectives!

Love and Light and joy (first snow of the season arrived here! WHEEE...!B-)

RR
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:34 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive
Haha!
Which one sees? Outer or inner jyotishi ;-)
Happy are those that simply wear the suit and don't have to pack it in a tight and rigid box aka a mechanic's tool-kit...!
:smt004

Either, Neither or both, the Outer and the inner Jyotishi ''see'' . The shades are seamless.

"Expertise, as the formula goes, requires going from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to conscious competence and finally to unconscious competence."

The fundamentals are same across techniques, there is unanimity in them;it is only when we suddenly claim that a technique or a set of them are the infallible answers that issues arise.

Many paths, many techniques, many answers...all changing from observer's point of view!

votive

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:34 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive
Haha!
Which one sees? Outer or inner jyotishi ;-)
Happy are those that simply wear the suit and don't have to pack it in a tight and rigid box aka a mechanic's tool-kit...!
:smt004

Either, Neither or both, the Outer and the inner Jyotishi ''see'' . The shades are seamless.

"Expertise, as the formula goes, requires going from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to conscious competence and finally to unconscious competence."

The fundamentals are same across techniques, there is unanimity in them;it is only when we suddenly claim that a technique or a set of them are the infallible answers that issues arise.

Many paths, many techniques, many answers...all changing from observer's point of view!

votive

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7412
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:51 pm

Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive
Haha!
Which one sees? Outer or inner jyotishi ;-)
Happy are those that simply wear the suit and don't have to pack it in a tight and rigid box aka a mechanic's tool-kit...!
:smt004

Either, Neither or both, the Outer and the inner Jyotishi ''see'' . The shades are seamless.

"Expertise, as the formula goes, requires going from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to conscious competence and finally to unconscious competence."

The fundamentals are same across techniques, there is unanimity in them;it is only when we suddenly claim that a technique or a set of them are the infallible answers that issues arise.

Many paths, many techniques, many answers...all changing from observer's point of view!

votive
But then, dear friend, these cannot be called 'techniques'! Calling these 'techniques' gives the false sense of these being *solid* (Newtonian rigidity?), transferable (one user to all others), reproducible, procedurally-sound?

Often when probed, for details, the devil that lurks in these appears...? Do you think Rahu's chalaawa (illusion) is playing some role? At least the Newtonian Rahu ...? :smt017
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Post Reply

Return to “Vedic Astrology”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests