Heisenberg's curse? :-(

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Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:22 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote:A curse or a blessing?
To encapsulate the flow of life in one or few  simple technique(s) suggests that Life is replicable and peer-reviewed!

Perhaps, there is much more to it. The Jyotishi sees it, captures its essence, uses it beautifully in his/her craft, getting it almost always right. But when others see it, use it, it seems so much short of what the Subject saw it earlier!

Votive
Haha!
Which one sees? Outer or inner jyotishi ;-)
Happy are those that simply wear the suit and don't have to pack it in a tight and rigid box aka a mechanic's tool-kit...!
:smt004

Either, Neither or both, the Outer and the inner Jyotishi ''see'' . The shades are seamless.

"Expertise, as the formula goes, requires going from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to conscious competence and finally to unconscious competence."

The fundamentals are same across techniques, there is unanimity in them;it is only when we suddenly claim that a technique or a set of them are the infallible answers that issues arise.

Many paths, many techniques, many answers...all changing from observer's point of view!

votive
But then, dear friend, these cannot be called 'techniques'! Calling these 'techniques' gives the false sense of these being *solid* (Newtonian rigidity?), transferable (one user to all others), reproducible, procedurally-sound?

Often when probed, for details, the devil that lurks in these appears...? Do you think Rahu's chalaawa (illusion) is playing some role? At least the Newtonian Rahu ...? :smt017

You are right, they   are not generally transferable. It is interesting that these "techniques'' work rather accurately in one persons's hand. We all have seen this several times over.

Secondly, there are so many ways to approach a chart, it is often difficult to define or spell out procedures by which the correct answers have been reached. I may feel, for example, that the Nakshatra dispositor has given me a direction, others may see the same distribution working because of the bhavat bhavam flow.

Rahu has so many hats and gloves and disguises!

And it does not even twinkle!!

Votive

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:19 pm

Votive wrote:...
You are right, they   are not generally transferable. It is interesting that these "techniques'' work rather accurately in one persons's hand. We all have seen this several times over.

Secondly, there are so many ways to approach a chart, it is often difficult to define or spell out procedures by which the correct answers have been reached. I may feel, for example, that the Nakshatra dispositor has given me a direction, others may see the same distribution working because of the bhavat bhavam flow.

Rahu has so many hats and gloves and disguises!

And it does not even twinkle!!

Votive
I have to disagree a bit, my dear friend :-)
A "technique" might be difficult or complex but it should be transferable. Remember, I am talking about claims that we in jyotish (but in other domains too) encounter where claims of certainty are made. When tested, or claimant sincerely probed for details, suddenly the adage comes to life: The Devil is in the Details!

Yes, there are many approaches, possibilities, interpretations, overlap and obfuscations in the attributes and roles and domains prescribed by proponents for planets, signs, houses etc that all play a role in synthetic readings, but we are discussing much simpler situations in this thread.

Also, being organic itself, and processed by an organic entity, readings etc (complex formulations) rely on conscious and sub-conscious processes. From a utility point of view (nativity) it does not matter whether someone uses techniques, a sacred parrot, an energized crystal or an intimate conversation with the Elemental Forces or even Divine Guidance of Sacred Ancestors -- they are only interested in the cake and not how it got baked! This thread is dealing with far simpler situations where reckless claims keep getting made and somehow rationalized.

I fully am on your side on the matter of different approaches such as nakshatra and bhavat bhavam (hypoth. ex.). The northern face of a mountain might appear different from the southern side but both exploring parties know that the mountain is ahead and that they have arrived :-)

Not just Rahu, but if you think calmly, dispassionately, or even somewhat detachedly (no stakes explorer) and taking into account more than one narrow viewpoint then it would be apparent that other planets (and other descriptors) too have wardrobes that may put any successful film star or a model to nail-biting shame! Even astrologically, Rahu seems to like all co-stars (except in certain situations possibly with two planets) and even assumes their roles, garbs and responsibilities. Of course, the sole view of the face of the mountin does not describe or define the whole mountain of possibilities?

Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:50 am

Votive wrote: ...
Rahu has so many hats and gloves and disguises!

And it does not even twinkle!!

Votive
Kind of like the subconscious, although in his iceberg model, Freud borrowing on mythology tried to dissect Swarbhanu into subconscious and unconscious? The two faces of ID...?    :smt004

Jung took a different approach and saw ordinary (regular?) puny humans and their *spirituality*, where Freud saw sexuality and hysteria...? Although even Freud had to change his world-view after he experienced the cruelty of insecure, but megalomaniacal Hitler? :-(

Sadly, many still remain beholden to Mein Kamph as others to scriptures of their religion, but hopefully, many of the still others have taken the time over the decades to study: Memories, Dreams and Reflections?

The sands of TIME managed to keep the ancient pyramids buried under accumulated sand (silicon compound?) for centuries, but can TRUTH ever remain buried forever?

Lose faith in that simple belief born out of many lifetimes and one could simply forget about the Sun and optimism? The quality that is the sine qua non for Chi, Qi, Prana, etc...? ;-)
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Votive
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:07 am

Post by Votive » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:30 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Votive wrote: ...
Rahu has so many hats and gloves and disguises!

And it does not even twinkle!!

Votive
Kind of like the subconscious, although in his iceberg model, Freud borrowing on mythology tried to dissect Swarbhanu into subconscious and unconscious? The two faces of ID...?    :smt004

Jung took a different approach and saw ordinary (regular?) puny humans and their *spirituality*, where Freud saw sexuality and hysteria...? Although even Freud had to change his world-view after he experienced the cruelty of insecure, but megalomaniacal Hitler? :-(

Sadly, many still remain beholden to Mein Kamph as others to scriptures of their religion, but hopefully, many of the still others have taken the time over the decades to study: Memories, Dreams and Reflections?

The sands of TIME managed to keep the ancient pyramids buried under accumulated sand (silicon compound?) for centuries, but can TRUTH ever remain buried forever?

Lose faith in that simple belief born out of many lifetimes and one could simply forget about the Sun and optimism? The quality that is the sine qua non for Chi, Qi, Prana, etc...? ;-)
Since Times immemorial, thinkers have felt the same thread, at times it disappears in shadows and at other times is resplendent and visible.

Plato's Allegory of the cave illuminates...

Rahu, the trigger for the shadows and the brightness. For the eclipse fades away and triggers new optimism.

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:05 pm

Votive wrote:
...

Since Times immemorial, thinkers have felt the same thread, at times it disappears in shadows and at other times is resplendent and visible.

Plato's Allegory of the cave illuminates...

Rahu, the trigger for the shadows and the brightness. For the eclipse fades away and triggers new optimism.
...Then again as humanists believe/claim, the language of astrology is fuelled by projecting the human psyche and its experiential repertoire on to the cosmic symbolisms. As a student of human psyche, those seriously and sincerely into occultism know (I am sure) that it has immense potential and power.

It is interesting that even in modern times, many conceptualize transits as if we are sitting motionless in chairs in the cosmic theatre and watching light and shadows moving on a fixed screen. When the fact belies us that nothing is constant, including the multiplex theatre. The multiverse...;-)
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

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