A question on Bhavas

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A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:44 am

deepakosho wrote:
Sat May 02, 2009 3:08 pm
vivekvshetty wrote:Namaskaar Deepak ji,In other words you mean why is the Aaroodha of 12th taken instead of the 7th from AL. Can you think of a reason?
Rahulji / Vivekji,

I tried to find answer to this one, the answer I found is..

12th house signifies giving and a person to whom we give the most is spouse. Thus the materially raised 12th is UL and hence UL signifies spouse.

12th house also represents celibacy, 7th (marriage , sex) puts an end to the celibacy (8th from 12th). So it is the spouse who puts an end to the celibacy.

12th is also 8th from 5th which signifies logevity of the family/lineage

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak
नमः शिवाय,
I'm new to this forum, Very curious in this divine Shaastram, I've gone to this topic & find it's interesting, I was reading the topics as a guest, today my account has been activated.
As 12th bhaava is known as Vyaya bhaava, how does it represent celibacy, got this doubt because it's house of bed pleasures, can someone please explain
& As 8th house represents longevity, Why 8th position from 12th curtails celibacy, as it represents longevity it may start or stop, right?
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
Finally Namaste to Rishi Raahul ji, Rohiniranjan ji, Vivek ji & all learned members by Spirit Seeker :smt039
Last edited by Spirit Seeker on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some questions

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:00 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:44 am
deepakosho wrote:
Sat May 02, 2009 3:08 pm
vivekvshetty wrote:Namaskaar Deepak ji,In other words you mean why is the Aaroodha of 12th taken instead of the 7th from AL. Can you think of a reason?
Rahulji / Vivekji,

I tried to find answer to this one, the answer I found is..

12th house signifies giving and a person to whom we give the most is spouse. Thus the materially raised 12th is UL and hence UL signifies spouse.

12th house also represents celibacy, 7th (marriage , sex) puts an end to the celibacy (8th from 12th). So it is the spouse who puts an end to the celibacy.

12th is also 8th from 5th which signifies logevity of the family/lineage

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak
नमः शिवाय,
I'm new to this forum, Very curious in this divine Shaastram, I've gone to this topic & find it's interesting, I was reading the topics as a guest, today my account has been activated.
As 12th bhaava is known as Vyaya bhaava, how does it represent celibacy, got this doubt because it's house of bed pleasures, can someone please explain
& As 8th house represents longevity, Why 8th position from 12th curtails celibacy, as it represents longevity it may start or stop, right?
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
Finally Namaste to Rishi Raahul ji, Vivek ji & all learned members by Spirit Seeker :smt039
Pardon my intrusion but how can 12th house be considered as representing celibacy as well as 'shayya-sukh'?' The latter has been associated with bed pleasures although more modest astrologers have *tried* to sanitize that to mean 'shayan-sukh' or pleasure from sleep and therefore someone's propensity to get good and sound sleep!

Seems like anything (any interpretation?) is possible in astrology...? :smt038

I better shut up or mod will come by and do this to me: :smt021
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Re: Some questions

Post by RishiRahul » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:49 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:00 pm
Spirit Seeker wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:44 am
deepakosho wrote:
Sat May 02, 2009 3:08 pm


Rahulji / Vivekji,

I tried to find answer to this one, the answer I found is..

12th house signifies giving and a person to whom we give the most is spouse. Thus the materially raised 12th is UL and hence UL signifies spouse.

12th house also represents celibacy, 7th (marriage , sex) puts an end to the celibacy (8th from 12th). So it is the spouse who puts an end to the celibacy.

12th is also 8th from 5th which signifies logevity of the family/lineage

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak
नमः शिवाय,
I'm new to this forum, Very curious in this divine Shaastram, I've gone to this topic & find it's interesting, I was reading the topics as a guest, today my account has been activated.
As 12th bhaava is known as Vyaya bhaava, how does it represent celibacy, got this doubt because it's house of bed pleasures, can someone please explain
& As 8th house represents longevity, Why 8th position from 12th curtails celibacy, as it represents longevity it may start or stop, right?
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
Finally Namaste to Rishi Raahul ji, Vivek ji & all learned members by Spirit Seeker :smt039
Hello spirit seaker,

Nice question!
But why dont you try to answer it yourself; while I try to give you few hints..

1) Would there be a difference if there is a benefic in the 12th. house, against a malefic being posited there? If it would be then how could that affect celibacy or sayan sukha?

2) Does the 8th. house signify longevity only? I was aware that the 3rd. and 8th. house is for longevity.
What if the 8th. from the 12th. house contains a benefic or a malefic?

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm

नमः शिवाय,
Suppose if Malefic posited in 12th भाव. Trying to answer it with an analogy, As we all know -ve (negative) multiplied by another -ve (negative) is Positive & also adding two negative numbers results a number with higher negative number. So, let's take Ketu in 12th it gives a kind of वैराग्यम् since it's the expenses are becoming high, here i used 2nd logic. As केतु is -ve & 12th is -ve. The result may vary whether the ग्रह​ is Natural malefic or functional malefic. This is just what i thought. I'm very new to this subject, so kindly forgive if mistakes are made & kindly educate me.

Coming to your next question,I consider 8th house as अभाग्य स्थानम् (House of unfortunate) since 12th from any भाव is loss of that भाव​ portfolios as 9th is house of fortune, loss to that भाव is Misfortune, thus 7th becomes मारक स्थानम् sine it's 12th from 8th. I see it as this way, as we're in this Mundane world. Till we attain सिद्धि we're misfortune. Thus 8th house represents longevity. More we leave, The More Karma left. In that sense i meant misfortune, what do you say Raahul ji?

This is just my self speculation. Kindly educate me if it's wrong.
Thanks
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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:27 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm
नमः शिवाय,
Suppose if Malefic posited in 12th भाव. Trying to answer it with an analogy, As we all know -ve (negative) multiplied by another -ve (negative) is Positive & also adding two negative numbers results a number with higher negative number. So, let's take Ketu in 12th it gives a kind of वैराग्यम् since it's the expenses are becoming high, here i used 2nd logic. As केतु is -ve & 12th is -ve. The result may vary whether the ग्रह​ is Natural malefic or functional malefic. This is just what i thought. I'm very new to this subject, so kindly forgive if mistakes are made & kindly educate me...

This is just my self speculation. Kindly educate me if it's wrong.
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
Haha! So if the government increases the income tax massively on poor people, the poor shall become richer...?

If we make a very dimly-lit room even darker, the room shall become brighter...??

Throw a freezing man into a bathtub full of ice and he shall gain heat and stop shivering...?

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:26 am

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm
...
Coming to your next question,I consider 8th house as अभाग्य स्थानम् (House of unfortunate) since 12th from any भाव is loss of that भाव​ portfolios as 9th is house of fortune, loss to that भाव is Misfortune, thus 7th becomes मारक स्थानम् sine it's 12th from 8th. I see it as this way, as we're in this Mundane world. Till we attain सिद्धि we're misfortune. Thus 8th house represents longevity. More we leave, The More Karma left. In that sense i meant misfortune, what do you say Raahul ji?

This is just my self speculation. Kindly educate me if it's wrong.
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
I see it a bit differently!
VIII is AYU (longevity)-bhava and 8th therefrom by Bhavat bhavam principle is the secondary Ayu bhava! 12Th therefrom (VII and II), therefore are considered maraka bhavas. One cannot take this scary 'Maraka' label too literally to indicate DEATH, but loss of vitality, particularly when horoscope indicates good longevity and the Marak periods arrive earlier in life!

Regarding your IX house consideration, you do have a point! However, the nodes are not necessarily malefic, despite what we read and/or are told by the Black & White kind of folks and conservative teachers/authors/interpreters etc...?

So perhaps, if IX is positive but VIII stronger, then perhaps that is not so good from a worldly point of view, since the propensity and promise of IX will suffer a loss? On the other hand, if IX is afflicted and VIII is stronger, there may be a reversal of negativity ...?

Even this is a simplification and one might wish to probe a bit deeper particularly when nodes get into the mix? Nodes perhaps tend to get appeased when they gain lordships (a home) in a chart. Otherwise, they acquire a greater probability of causing trouble?

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by RishiRahul » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:42 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm
नमः शिवाय,
Suppose if Malefic posited in 12th भाव. Trying to answer it with an analogy, As we all know -ve (negative) multiplied by another -ve (negative) is Positive & also adding two negative numbers results a number with higher negative number. So, let's take Ketu in 12th it gives a kind of वैराग्यम् since it's the expenses are becoming high, here i used 2nd logic. As केतु is -ve & 12th is -ve. The result may vary whether the ग्रह​ is Natural malefic or functional malefic. This is just what i thought. I'm very new to this subject, so kindly forgive if mistakes are made & kindly educate me.

Coming to your next question,I consider 8th house as अभाग्य स्थानम् (House of unfortunate) since 12th from any भाव is loss of that भाव​ portfolios as 9th is house of fortune, loss to that भाव is Misfortune, thus 7th becomes मारक स्थानम् sine it's 12th from 8th. I see it as this way, as we're in this Mundane world. Till we attain सिद्धि we're misfortune. Thus 8th house represents longevity. More we leave, The More Karma left. In that sense i meant misfortune, what do you say Raahul ji?

This is just my self speculation. Kindly educate me if it's wrong.
Thanks
Spirit Seeker

Have you checked few charts having Ketu in the 12th. house before coming to your conclusion? There are quite rich people with Ketu in such position.
Expenses and earnings are not simplistically based on malefics in the 12th. house.

12th. Ketu gives gives difficult experiences through dreams/psychic experiences causing detachment or even turbulence as regards to material life; in short.

The 8th. house, besides certain benefits like sudden, unearned wealth etc is a house inconveniencing the 1st. house.
Similarly the 8th. house from any other house inconveniences it.

Thus the inconvieniences of the 12th. is hurt by the 7th. house (which is the 8th. from the 12th).
Besides the 7th is the only 'kama' trikona house, which is opposite of the Lagna.

The vimshottari dasa and evaluation of the houses is based on much complicated logic.

While it is always healthy to give effort to logic; getting submerged in too much logic can lead to:= eg: a goat has a beard. Rabndranath has a beard.
Therefore Robindronath is a goat (kind of thing).

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm

नमः शिवाय,
Rahul ji, I'm still at the basic level, problem with me is I'm approaching this divine Shaastram in an unconventional way. Sorry if I'm mistaken & thanks for the information.
RishiRahul wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:42 pm

While it is always healthy to give effort to logic; getting submerged in too much logic can lead to:= eg: a goat has a beard. Rabndranath has a beard.
Therefore Robindronath is a goat (kind of thing).

RishiRahul
Rahul ji, you can't use the transitive property here, i think it doesn't convey a valid information, what do you say?
If suppose a=b, b=c, then a=c is a transitive property. There are constraints for the above property. a, b, c are sets or functions. They can be variables, they can be anything, They're Mathematical terms.

For example Set A = (Set of all prime numbers below 10 let's say) So, A = (2, 3, 5, 7). It's read as Set A consists of elements 2, 3, 5, 7
Set B = (Set of all even prime numbers) So, B= (2). It's read as Set B consists of element 2, that's it. 2 is only even prime.
We shouldn't jump & say that Set A consists an 2 & set B also consists it. Thus both are not equal sets. A is super set of B (All the elements in B will be in A) the converse need not be true. It's the definition of Super set. If Converse is true the above said logic by you'll be correct, i.e., All the elements in A will be in B & all the elements in B will be in A. It's possible only when both are equal sets. I hope you got it.
Instead you could say Rabindranath, goat both has beard, but they're different because we humans perceive both has different domains.
I hope it's clear :smt041
Thanks

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by RishiRahul » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:25 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm
नमः शिवाय,
Rahul ji, I'm still at the basic level, problem with me is I'm approaching this divine Shaastram in an unconventional way. Sorry if I'm mistaken & thanks for the information.
RishiRahul wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:42 pm

While it is always healthy to give effort to logic; getting submerged in too much logic can lead to:= eg: a goat has a beard. Rabndranath has a beard.
Therefore Robindronath is a goat (kind of thing).

RishiRahul
Rahul ji, you can't use the transitive property here, i think it doesn't convey a valid information, what do you say?
If suppose a=b, b=c, then a=c is a transitive property. There are constraints for the above property. a, b, c are sets or functions. They can be variables, they can be anything, They're Mathematical terms.

For example Set A = (Set of all prime numbers below 10 let's say) So, A = (2, 3, 5, 7). It's read as Set A consists of elements 2, 3, 5, 7
Set B = (Set of all even prime numbers) So, B= (2). It's read as Set B consists of element 2, that's it. 2 is only even prime.
We shouldn't jump & say that Set A consists an 2 & set B also consists it. Thus both are not equal sets. A is super set of B (All the elements in B will be in A) the converse need not be true. It's the definition of Super set. If Converse is true the above said logic by you'll be correct, i.e., All the elements in A will be in B & all the elements in B will be in A. It's possible only when both are equal sets. I hope you got it.
Instead you could say Rabindranath, goat both has beard, but they're different because we humans perceive both has different domains.
I hope it's clear :smt041
Thanks
It is clear. Also proving that you are very good at logic!
This will help you in astrology

More, if you try to understand the philosophy behind the logic. Experience and knowledge teaches us that.

Try to go into the applicability of astrology too.

Good luck.

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:42 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:25 pm
More, if you try to understand the philosophy behind the logic. Experience and knowledge teaches us that.

Try to go into the applicability of astrology too.

Good luck.
RishiRahul
नमः शिवाय,
Thanks for your time Rahul ji, I'm passionate & curious learner, I love Philosophy too. I want to pursue this divine ज्योतिष शास्रम् & want to do as a free service. :smt056 I'm interested in teaching as well. Presently by God's grace I'm pursuing one of my passion. I'm little curious to know that the ग्रह combinations in my horoscope make me a proficient Astrologer or not!? 🤔
Will post my birth details on the basis of your reply
Thanks
Spirit Seeker
Last edited by Spirit Seeker on Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:21 am

RishiRahul wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:25 pm
...

It is clear. Also proving that you are very good at logic!
This will help you in astrology

More, if you try to understand the philosophy behind the logic. Experience and knowledge teaches us that.

Try to go into the applicability of astrology too.
...
Astronomers grumble that astrologers came before they did and captured the 'first rights' to claiming the name and nature of their discipline as the -logy. Astronomers needed instruments to really get to speed and by the time they ended up fighting the contemporary sacred keepers of the Knowledge of skies, only "nomy' was left for them to claim ;-)

Astronomy is very much dependent on math and without math and astronomy and spherical trigonometry etc, we astrologers would be lost in the haystack of a variety of books of coordinates and ephemerides in different locales, etc (and many still tend to remain so...?), but often modern folks seem to tend to get it in reverse? Even beginners, first assume that astrology is math, even science, and 100% logical and speculative mind-play aside and many interpretations by brilliant folks, perhaps more than philosophical, astrology is meta-physical and perhaps a mish-mash of language, sociology, symbolism, even flexible-symbologies (subject to interpretation and meta-interpretation) and a dash of that faculty which ill-understood like quantum reality (still much to explore and understand and a lot in it debatable even amongst the cognoscenti) must continue to be explored carefully, passionately, but not too rigid-mindedly...?

Since the subject of study and focus of astrology is biological (human individuals, their communities, their societies, nations, stock market and other things and events whose BASE is formed of humans and their idiosyncracies, variabilities, dynamic growth (evolution), perhaps astrology, the study of these must be empirically explored and studied (applicability, as you wisely suggested...!), before anyone make up their mind too firmly, what astrology is or meant to be in its essence...?

Just sharing some thoughts, generally, and not suggesting a or the path for anyone!! ;-)
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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:13 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:21 am
perhaps astrology, the study of these must be empirically explored and studied (applicability, as you wisely suggested...!), before anyone make up their mind too firmly, what astrology is or meant to be in its essence...?
नमः शिवाय,
Rohiniranjan Ji, could you please explain the above statement clearly, what do you mean by we're suppose to explore this study empirically?
Kindly elaborate it. Your posts are little profound. It needs some time & patience to analyze(For me!). Two of your posts i just left it, will & want to go through it after my exams.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:21 am
Often modern folks seem to tend to get it in reverse? Even beginners, first assume that astrology is math, even science, and 100% logical and speculative mind-play aside and many interpretations by brilliant folks, perhaps more than philosophical, astrology is meta-physical and perhaps a mish-mash of language, sociology, symbolism, even flexible-symbologies (subject to interpretation and meta-interpretation) and a dash of that faculty which ill-understood like quantum reality (still much to explore and understand and a lot in it debatable even amongst the cognoscenti) must continue to be explored carefully, passionately, but not too rigid-mindedly...?
& personally me, I believe the fact that Astrology isn't completely logical. Simple instance why 2nd house is defined as the way it is & why not other house (Well, we might accept it as definition), Why only 27 constellations are to be considered why not more? & there are so many...what not
There are certain things in Astrology which are not sensible, thus some part of Astrology is "non-sensical" So, it is beyond our senses. But not nuisance, Wisdom is beyond our senses. Now I believe this because it was written & understood by self "realized souls". So, next question arises how do you even know that they're self realized without you being realized? Now it's just matter of belief in our mundane experiences came out with removing delta (an infinitesimal quantity (small)) of ego & contemplate it by ourselves. Thus as it involves ego less thoughts, they'll come true (I think so). What do you say ji?
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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Spirit Seeker » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:50 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:42 pm
While it is always healthy to give effort to logic; getting submerged in too much logic can lead to:= eg: a goat has a beard. Rabndranath has a beard.
Therefore Robindronath is a goat (kind of thing).

RishiRahul
नमः शिवाय,
Rahul ji, I was encountered a Math question & got another logic, for the above geometrically, this can be visualized, it's quite easy, It's follows: If suppose A (Some line named A) is perpendicular to B (Some name perpendicular to B), it means angle between the two straight lines is 90 degrees & if suppose B is perpendicular to C (some other line named C) then line A need not be perpendicular to C, it may be perpendicular in some cases only.
I think visualizing is easier, since they'e geometrical.
Thanks

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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:55 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:50 pm
...नमः शिवाय,
Rahul ji, I was encountered a Math question & got another logic, for the above geometrically, this can be visualized, it's quite easy, It's follows: If suppose A (Some line named A) is perpendicular to B (Some name perpendicular to B), it means angle between the two straight lines is 90 degrees & if suppose B is perpendicular to C (some other line named C) then line A need not be perpendicular to C, it may be perpendicular in some cases only.
I think visualizing is easier, since they'e geometrical.
Thanks
The more the dimensions considered in the ponderings and musings, the richer and finer the resolution of the deliberation becomes :-)
In astrology which is multi-factorial and multi-dimensional or perhaps vari-dimensional, this is one important thing to keep in mind! So when even experts sometimes tend to focus on one or two factors and illustrate with 'chosen' examples, subjective bias rears its ugly head...!

Analysis and logic are a good start, but synthesis is what makes the food taste scrumptious, and not simply the recipe as printed or claimed often...!

Best of luck with your exams!
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Re: A question on Bhavas

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:38 am

By vari-dimensions I was thinking about Bhavas which have many dimensional descriptions?

They represent the physical, mental, and spiritual as the three basic dimensions. Each bhava has several layers of interpretations? Uttarakalamrita, that I have stated in a primer I once shared with all who had time and/or interest to read lays it out beautifully!

The physical going from I to XII is simply the homunculus represented through astrology or its dimension?

There is also the dimension of dinacharyaa (routine) that comes across through the 12-awasthas??

These awasthaas/states/dimensions that many *hoppers* flit from branch to branch, school to school, flag to another, miss ...

Later when your exams are done, NOW IS THE TIME FOR FOCUS on the POWER OF NOW...? ;-)
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