Earth needs more "Divine Astrologers"

[Rhutobello]

I remember back when I was 16-20 years old....I was a grown up....I new it all....I had got all the new informations....my parents who was in their early 40 was just fossils had old knowledge....could not possible understand the youth of today.

The older I become.....the more I discovered how wrong I was....and today more then 40 years later I still learn a lot about thing that happen long before my birth.

What I would state with this story is.

We as youth believe much in ourself....and that is not bad at all.....but we need to bring with us that thought that it is impossible to know it all.
If we don't know it all....then the best way is to show respect for other opinion too....as long as the answer are not as simple as 2+2=4 they might be right.

If we enter a state where we always want to win any discussion, by showing our knowledge in it and meeting opinion with contra opinion sentence for sentence then we are on a wrong path....then we try to show how good we are....then I might ask...when was the last time you wrote a book about the subject....because then we start to sound like professorial demeanour.... which my father also told me once, that I sounded like, when I discussed a case I burned for....and later showed I was partly wrong

So when we discuss subject...where no fix solution is given....show respect for the other person....fight by give your best shot...if he/she not agree with you...no big harm is done....the world still rotate ....you still have your belief....and as time goes by....maybe it slowly change into a wider perspective

[sravankv]

It depends on the perception.

If you do it first time, your hands will definitely burn, but if you practice to master as an art, you will.

during the course of mastery, you will come to know your strengths and weakness, and you will surely know the result of every move.

atleast i am convinced with this "Opinions are not always facts. but facts can become opinions".

this is how vexed questions are.

i remember my saying, which even learned say "some things cannot be debated, but merely understood by experience."

there are several people who tried to prove this. i am just one of them.

but surely i know what i am.

but i a may be critical in statements. but remember if critic is not there development and its realization does not exist.

then the thinking starts. i just motivated the thinking to begin.

it is neither a win-win or win-lose or lose-lose situation.

it is a matter of belief and expertise.

i may not be a professor by qualification, but surely there is a possibility that there are individuals in this society who have more knowledge than a professor.

i still believe it is a matter of belief and expertise, which will only show you way forth.

[Rhutobello]

Well....there might be a slightly error here if you took my posting as some adjustment to your post....it was not

I thought it was obvious since I started with the 16-20 years old stuff which should indicate the age of the participant

I also stated the use of "quote" on each sentence to the member, which he did not agree with, and then give his opinion on each of them.
This is the professor way to put his student on place, and a bit unfair done in a community.

But let me at once state that I myself has no knowledge in this art, as person it seems to me that Sei no Senshi has good knowledge for his age and with proper attitude and learning can reach far....he only have to understand that not all is black or white.....there is lots of way to see thing....and even if he don't agree....it might not be wrong....it might only be another way that lead to the same result.....if any of the opinions lead to a result at all.

[Prof. Akers]

'Once again you prove my point of reference...just because astrology is not proven to be a science from "western scientist" does not mean its not a science.  So called Western World took Columbus journey to prove the world round but it does not dicount the fact that the world was not round prior to Columbus encounter with American Indians.'

Interesting and totally wrong, Columbus did discover America, Magellan circumnavigated to earth, and the earth was round before he did it not after.
As to science; science says that if you do an experiment and that experimant is successful then it should work everytime, by whoever, done where ever. It is repeatable.
Astrology seems to rely on interpritation, as do most other methods of divination and one persons inter[ritation may well differ from anothers - ergo not a science, end of story.

[Rhutobello]

Hehehe....I think what was intended to say, was that the earth before the discovery, people had an general opinion that earth was flat and we was able to fall of at the edges

The opinion itself was real for those who lived at that time, and was promoted as fact, nothing changed,(to earth) by the discovery except our opinion or fact that it was more round, and even if you lived upside down you was able to walk as normal without falling out in the big void

[sravankv]

Hey guys,

We are debating between the subject and the object, but we certainly forgot the medium of propogation.

Before debating the Astrology is science or not, we are forgetting the time is perfect medium.

Time has changed, and brought many changes.

There was a time, when astrology was respected as science and as gods gift.

Today timely, people discuss this as a boon, and not a science.

One thing which remained same is astrology.

What is changed is the way you look at it.

But Why we are doing this? Because we dont have the proof or we are overlooking it or rather not interested.

Proof is out of our reach, since we still do with ego rather than belief and reasoning.

There lies the answer.

I did some, and was successful in every case.

Now i am investigation the proof. the correct calculation first, next the emphasis of the calculation.

That is what astronomy + astrology = future.

[Rhutobello]

I am not so much after proof as long as I see they who use it act as it is an prediction or a belief.

Astrology, psychic, palmistry,tarot, tea-leaf and so on gives many great predictions and help a lot of people in a nice way...and might even put them on the right track here in life and that is fine.

But if they start to say thing like "proof"...then we are not longer on prediction or belief....then we are on science....and science has rules what we can call proof....just like  Prof Akers mention.

So instead of proof we might say indications....but even indications give room for different opinions and then we are back to square one....Respect for others opinion because we have no proof of our own.

So if anyone believe I am attacking any of these "prediction tools" then they have misunderstood me...I believe they are great...they are mostly delivered from ancient time.....they have lived true changing time and survived...the only thing they miss are the final proof.....the thing that makes them hit again and again and again.

[Sei no Senshi]

I remember back when I was 16-20 years old....I was a grown up....I new it all....I had got all the new informations....my parents who was in their early 40 was just fossils had old knowledge....could not possible understand the youth of today.

This isn't some teenaged angst expressing itself.  It's me countering other opinions with my own brand of logic.  I don't see how that's haughty...  And you know, I have to say I'm insulted that my age is even brought into this.  It's not my physical age or body that is taking part in this, it's my mind and understanding...

We as youth believe much in ourself....and that is not bad at all.....but we need to bring with us that thought that it is impossible to know it all.

I'm not saying I know it all, but I'm quite sure astrology is not a science.  It's a system of interpretation based on intuition, symbolism, mythology, and religion, I don't at all see how that's scientific.  It fails scientific methods because the same thing in astrology can mean about a billion different things.  2 is always going to represent two things.  Neptune represents about a billion different things, and it's up to the astrologer to symbolically pick through what it means to arrive at the correct interpretation.

If we enter a state where we always want to win any discussion, by showing our knowledge in it and meeting opinion with contra opinion sentence for sentence then we are on a wrong path....then we try to show how good we are....then I might ask...when was the last time you wrote a book about the subject....because then we start to sound like professorial demeanour.... which my father also told me once, that I sounded like, when I discussed a case I burned for....and later showed I was partly wrong

Well, if I'm wrong, I'm at least big enough to accept it and bow out.  I'm not so caught up in myself and my ideas to immediately dismiss anything to the contrary.  If you have a good enough argument that I can't find logical error in, then you're good.  If you don't have a good enough argument and I find logical error in it, I'm going to disagree and say so.  I don't see how having a comment on most of the post is a bad thing, it's just my debating style.  I thought it made it easier since they'll know exactly what comments are going to what statements.  Silly me.  Actually, I've been working on writing a book on the Quartet, I finished the preface of it yesterday, but I don't see what this has to do with anything because by this I get the idea that no one is allowed to post their opinions unless they're 'professionally qualified' whatever that means.  I thought this was a discussion board, and debate is a form of discussion.  If this were a 'everyone-post-their-opinion-and-that-be-it' board it'd be very...boring.  You'd have a bunch of 'I agree' and 'I disagree' but no one really getting anything out of it.

So when we discuss subject...where no fix solution is given....show respect for the other person....fight by give your best shot...if he/she not agree with you...no big harm is done....the world still rotate ....you still have your belief....and as time goes by....maybe it slowly change into a wider perspective

Well, don't you think I've thought about this long and hard before?  I've been studying astrology seriously for about two and a half years now and you don't get very far into it before you start wondering 'is this scientific?'  However, since it's based on mythology and relgion and has in the thousands of years of existance gained a certain amount of symbolism and based on mainly intuitive interpretation I have to say 'no, it's not scientific'.  It's not like I just woke up one day and said 'Astrology is not scientific, no matter what anyone tells me'.  There is method to my madness.

This is the professor way to put his student on place, and a bit unfair done in a community.

No, it's a neatly organized method of discussion in which each participant knows exactly what comments apply to what part of the statement.  That and my posts tend to be quite long and if I didn't do it this way it'd just be a big blob of words and I and others would probably forget what I'm talking about before we got halfway through it.

he only have to understand that not all is black or white.....there is lots of way to see thing....and even if he don't agree....it might not be wrong....it might only be another way that lead to the same result.....if any of the opinions lead to a result at all.

Well, you know, in retrospect, who cares what I think?  Obviously no one as everyone seems to believe astrology is some fixed scientific system, when it's not.  You take something to three different astrologers and they'll all tell you something different.  Astrologers can't even agree on house systems and assignments.  Very scientific, that.  So it's no wonder no one agrees about whether astrology is mystical or scientific, and it really doesn't help that astrology is assigned to the Ninth house of philosophy, belief, religion, and higher learning. <-- That was sarcasm by the way.

As to science; science says that if you do an experiment and that experimant is successful then it should work everytime, by whoever, done where ever. It is repeatable.

Exactly.  Astrology is not repeatable.  It's too complex to break down, so there is no method or repitition.

Just so this doesn't turn out to be some kind of whine fest on my part, I'd like to continue my astrology/tarot comparison. &nbsp;I get the feeling that the only reason people think astrology is scientific is because astronomy was derived off of it as far as locating and keeping track of the planets. &nbsp;So, since astrology and astronomy both deal with the planets, and astronomy is scientific, astrology must be too. &nbsp;Well while I can't really say there's a science behind the tarot, there is a mathematics field that relates pretty closely; probability. &nbsp;The probablity you'll get the right card that reflects the situation best, well, obviously it's a 1/78 shot, but just because it can be derived so easily based on 'mathematics' doesn't mean tarot has anything to do with it.

Same way astrology has no science in it beyond calculating positions, so does tarot have no mathematics in it beyond calculating odds and probability of card spreads.

Make sense?

[suzisco]

There is no prediction content to this thread, i have moved it to astrology forum.

Suzi (Moderator)

[Rhutobello]

Make sense?[/b]

No MASTER..it don't.....

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[Sei no Senshi]

Is that supposed to like...hurt or something?

Ouch...?

[Rhutobello]

Nope....it was just that I didn't read a word of it, because you posted in the same way I recommended you should not do.

I am not discussing in order to discuss or to get it right every time.... If you try to read my post...then all was about behaviour and respect for your opponents.

I have had a couple of complains from other members....instead of delete or send your post to jail...I have tried to give some input to you to see the case from other places then your Ego.....It seems I can't succeed with that.

So from now on, post that is reported and found Inappropriate against other members will be removed without any further notice.

I hope this make some sort of sense for you.

[Sei no Senshi]

Nope....it was just that I didn't read a word of it, because you posted in the same way I recommended you should not do.

Well, personally I don't think that was very mature of you, but okay, that's your choice to read it or not. &nbsp;I'm not going to change my posting style. &nbsp;It makes it a lot easier for me to respond to things, and I think it makes it easier for others to read. &nbsp;I don't mean there to be a condescending connotation behind it, and if there is one, I apologize, it's not my purpose to talk down to people. &nbsp;I just think it's an easy method of statement/comment dicussion. &nbsp;I do it when I debate, and I do it in casual postings. &nbsp;No 'professor/student points' intended and I'm really sorry if it does come off this way.

I am not discussing in order to discuss or to get it right every time.... If you try to read my post...then all was about behaviour and respect for your opponents.

I do have respect for them. &nbsp;Perhaps it's my usage of sarcasm that gets on people's nerves, and I'm sorry if that's what it is, it's nothing personal. &nbsp;I'm not going to mock people because of their opinons (though I may seek to challenge and discredit it) or bring in personal details such as age, gender, or anything else. &nbsp;I'm only going to discuss what's on the table, and that was astrology as a science or not, until you made me angry and brought my age into this.

I have had a couple of complains from other members....instead of delete or send your post to jail...I have tried to give some input to you to see the case from other places then your Ego.....It seems I can't succeed with that.

Really? &nbsp;Well, this is the first time I've ever heard anything like this and this is the first time you've ever 'tried' anything. &nbsp;This isn't about my 'ego', it's about discussion. &nbsp;Also, if people have a problem with me, I want to know about it. &nbsp;We're not in kindergarten anymore. &nbsp;You don't go and run to the teacher to settle your problems, you face them head on by talking with the person (in private if necessary) and smoothing things out yourself. &nbsp;It's not up to you, Rhutobello, to settle disputes, you probably have enough to do what with taking care of spam and adminsitrating the site and whatnot. &nbsp;It's up to the individuals to settle it and get it worked out and that's not possible if a party to the act is oblivious to what's going on. &nbsp;So, in the future, if anyone has a problem with me, please contact me via PM and we can work it out like adults, even if by 'working it out' we agree to stay far, far away from one another. :D Hehe

So from now on, post that is reported and found Inappropriate against other members will be removed without any further notice.

Well...what would be considered inappropriate? &nbsp;I haven't insulted anyone or made personal digs at anyone, at least not that I remember, I've slept since then and made many posts so some of them are kind of blurry. &nbsp;^.^ &nbsp;Hehe. &nbsp;If rattling someone's cage by challenging the opinion they've posted in a discussion is inappropriate, then yeah, I'm dead guilty, but I'm not apologizing for it as I don't think there's anything wrong with that. &nbsp;If this is inappropriate, then I don't need to be here. &nbsp;The only thing that I felt was inappropriate was your bringing my age into the discussion, which made me feel like a victim of blatant ageism. &nbsp;Now, I doubt that's really what you meant by it, and I can let it go, but I have to admit I saw red for a bit.

[Prof. Akers]

I could have structured arguements as coherently as you do, at your age Sei no Seichi (I hope that's not ageist), and I think that might be at the root of the problem. People are not used to the way quotes are refuted and find this difficult to counter.
Judging by the way you use language I would assume you are very intelligent &nbsp;(I'm finding this hard to write without sounding condescending myself) - deal gently with them, more gifts - more responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sidewalk_bends]

it's beautiful.