Can You Tell A Criminal From His Chart?

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Freya
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Post by Freya » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:56 pm

Hi,

I believe that by looking at any chart, and / or any single factor in a chart separately, you will find that any component is carrying the possibility to make bad decisions and become a criminal if that is a path of life the individual has chosen. It's a question of levels. It's not like a specific factor is indicating that the individual is misusing that particular energy. That's his / her own choice.

Let's say I showed you my own radix chart, and told you something in the lines of: "Freya is the worst and most cold-blooded serial killer there is!", I'm sure you'd agree!

After all, I'm an Aquarian! As if that wasn't enough, Mercury & Saturn are also in Aquarius. Which adds detachment to my personality. So let's look at the Moon's placement in the chart: I do not find much comfort in knowing I'll find the Moon in Scorpio, conjunct Neptune - which are also focal planets in a T-cross involving The Sun & Saturn conjuntion, opposition retrograde Mars in Leo, square my Moon & Neptun conjunction in Scorpio.

So if I showed you my chart, I'm sure you'd agree that this chart is showing a cold-blooded murderer.....

On the other hand; I'm sure it's possible to find some factor(s) in a chart that points to how various energies may be misused. Which could be anything.

Dijana1970
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Post by Dijana1970 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:56 am

As Freya wisely said, in every chart you can find something that indicates violent, criminal person. But it is our choice and free will how we react on that "provocations".
Whenever we choose not to be violent, we grow and become wiser and better person.

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Freya
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Post by Freya » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:47 am

Hi again,

Lois M. Rodden presented numerous charts in her "Profiles of Crime".  It's a book that contains 735 data of criminals and 435 cases with the planet positions listed, with over 2,000 timed events. It contains serial killers, mass murderers, organized crime lords and terrorists, rapits and theirs victims, homicide vicitims, etc. Among these, we'll find Andreas Berndt Baader, (I'm not sure if you know who he was, because he was a terrorist operating in Europe in the 70'ies). Also: Jeffrey Dahmer, Diane Dawns, Hans Frank, (Nazi-Germany), Gary Mark Gilmore, (The first individual to be executed after a 10 years moratorium on executions in the U.S), Reinhard Heydrich, (Heinrich Himmler's assistant), Anton LaVey (satanist), Charles Manson, Joseph Mengele (War criminal), Lee Harvey Oswald, Olof Palme, (The Swedish Prime Minister who was shot down and killed on his way from a movie theater). Ramirez Ricardo, (Serial Killer), Charles Starkweather, (Serial Killer), Charles Joseph Whitman, (Mass Murderer),  - there is way too many to list here.

What struck me while going through these charts, was that there was nothing specific that would point to a criminal path of life. BUT - as with any other chart, I did find energies that COULD, if the individual chose to use a specific energy in a way that never serve him / her, And I can also see which energies that "floats" through an individial and went wrong because of bad choices.

The very same energies could have been used to something very, very useful. Both for the individual itself, and for society as a whole.

Also: I've studied Ted Bundy's chart in some detail, and what I saw was an individual who had all the choices available, (at least many), but chose to use them to create confusion, grief and havoc everywhere he went.

With Ted Bundy, it did not have to turn out this way. He had so much - but his CHOICE took him to places we don't even want to think about.

Believe it or not - he had it all. His choice was to create destruction. Which is a possibility we all have. If I had his chart in my hand and wanted to interpret it, there is no way I could have recognize him as the person he became.

I will recommend this book by Lois M. Rodden to everyone who might be interested in Astrology and crime. As Dijana1970 points out, it's all a question of choices.

Hope I managed to explain in a way that makes some sense. Interesting discussion by the way

Have an excellent day, everyone!

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yerbatera
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Re: Can You Tell A Criminal From His Chart?

Post by yerbatera » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:41 pm

rozrokz wrote:I have often wondered what makes a criminal tick. Sometimes when you see a murderer, you can never think that he is capable of such a dastardly act from his outer apperance. It makes me wonder whether there is something in their charts that will show their propensity for violent and crime. Or is everyone capable of committing murder (crimes of passion :smt005 ) when the situation reaches a certain boiling point.
It would help to narrow the definition of criminal as there are many different types, not to mention one-timers vs. serial offenders...  Would be an interesting study with nonviolent crimes (i.e., traffic offenses).  Would we find that Fire signs may receive more speeding tickets than other elements/signs?  Would we see a preponderance of Fixed Sun/Asc folks stubbornly ignoring laws they disagree with (HOV)?  You'd need to track many variables, but it could be an interesting study...

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:20 am

[quote="Freya"]Hi again,

Lois M. Rodden presented numerous charts in her "Profiles of Crime".  It's a book that contains 735 data of criminals and 435 cases with the planet positions listed, with over 2,000 timed events. It contains serial killers, mass murderers, organized crime lords and terrorists, rapits and theirs victims, homicide vicitims, etc. Among these, we'll find Andreas Berndt Baader, (I'm not sure if you know who he was, because he was a terrorist operating in Europe in the 70'ies). Also: Jeffrey Dahmer, Diane Dawns, Hans Frank, (Nazi-Germany), Gary Mark Gilmore, (The first individual to be executed after a 10 years moratorium on executions in the U.S), Reinhard Heydrich, (Heinrich Himmler's assistant), Anton LaVey (satanist), Charles Manson, Joseph Mengele (War criminal), Lee Harvey Oswald, Olof Palme, (The Swedish Prime Minister who was shot down and killed on his way from a movie theater). Ramirez Ricardo, (Serial Killer), Charles Starkweather, (Serial Killer), Charles Joseph Whitman, (Mass Murderer),  - there is way too many to list here.

What struck me while going through these charts, was that there was nothing specific that would point to a criminal path of life. BUT - as with any other chart, I did find energies that COULD, if the individual chose to use a specific energy in a way that never serve him / her, And I can also see which energies that "floats" through an individial and went wrong because of bad choices.

The very same energies could have been used to something very, very useful. Both for the individual itself, and for society as a whole.

Also: I've studied Ted Bundy's chart in some detail, and what I saw was an individual who had all the choices available, (at least many), but chose to use them to create confusion, grief and havoc everywhere he went.

With Ted Bundy, it did not have to turn out this way. He had so much - but his CHOICE took him to places we don't even want to think about.

Believe it or not - he had it all. His choice was to create destruction. Which is a possibility we all have. If I had his chart in my hand and wanted to interpret it, there is no way I could have recognize him as the person he became.

I will recommend this book by Lois M. Rodden to everyone who might be interested in Astrology and crime. As Dijana1970 points out, it's all a question of choices.

Hope I managed to explain in a way that makes some sense. Interesting discussion by the way

Have an excellent day, everyone![/quote]

You may have something interesting there! Long ago I discussed two charts, which were very similar (being born not that far apart). One belonged to the serial killer John Wayne Gacy (Chicago) and a brilliant surgeon (India). Same ascendants but such different utilization of mars!

You are on the right track -- keep looking ...

Love, Light and Levity ...
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

balijepalli
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Post by balijepalli » Sun May 11, 2008 11:37 am

it actually depends up on thr positons of rahu and kethu and the sixth place planet and the 11th place planet
bnmurthy

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RishiRahul
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Post by RishiRahul » Mon May 12, 2008 8:06 am

balijepalli wrote:it actually depends up on thr positons of rahu and kethu and the sixth place planet and the 11th place planet

Hey balijepalli,

You are in the Western astrology forum. Rahu and Ketu terms do not have any entity here. The visitors of this forum will get confused.

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Rurk61
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Cereal Killers

Post by Rurk61 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 am

My God they got Cap'n Crunch!! I know that was bad. Didn't exactly work either. Still I think it was Seadog

You brought up an interesting Q here. I have looked at some charts of serial killers (maybe my Neptune in Scorpio is drawn to the subject).

Maybe rather than studying the charts of all serial killers it might be interesting to just look closely at the chart of one really excellent one: Ted Bundy.

Here is some food for thought: Saturn and Pluto conjunct in the 12 house. Maybe I can stop right there- I think would be a very vivid fantasy life, but not involving sugar plum fairies and candy canes.) S and P are square a Jupiter and Venus conjunction in Scorpio, known for its delicate nature, and sqeamishness. P of course rules Scorpio.

J and V are in the 3rd house- odd he never wrote about it.. he was interviewed about it, and he was always thinking about it. There was a tension between his cold dark fantasies ( squared conjunction of S and P) and copious, fixed. pleasurable thoughts about killing ( J and V in 3rd house Scorpio)

What about acting on all this bloody thinking?

Of course the 8th house (Scorpio being the 8th sign) is essential for any self-respecting murderer. Pisces is on the cusp of the 8th.. seemingly harmless, but then Neptune (fantasy again) is in Libra, and the ruler of Libra is conjunct Jupiter in Scorpio as we discussed.

There is an empty 8th house. But, it is inconjuncted by Neptune in Libra. S and P inconjuncting the 8th house. several big debilities.

Aries also makes up half of the 8th house. Aries is do-it-yourself. The ruler is Mars the planet of action- well aspected- contructive action. poorly aspected- destructive action. Mars is conjunct the Moon in Sagittarius these are opposing Uranus in Gemini, and this whole arrangement is squaring the 8th house on either side.  We have a very debilitated house and house co-ruler.

Mars and the S/P conjunction complement each other well though- he had the chance to act out his bloody ideas. And they were carried out in private (S/P 12 house.)


There is a lot more that could be said, but I think I listed some features you could find in a killer's chart- they could manifest in other ways though- but bad aspects to Pluto, Mars, debilitated 8th house with anyone who kills; and then debilitated 12th with a serial killer, who is very secretive about their crimes.

ktserious
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Post by ktserious » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:01 am

I do not believe it. I think stress and diet or upbringing has a lot to do with how a person may turn out. Maybe there are similar traits that are in signs but I think something ushes that person over the edge.
kaytrina

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Post by astrologer50 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:30 am

ktserious wrote:I do not believe it. I think stress and diet or upbringing has a lot to do with how a person may turn out. Maybe there are similar traits that are in signs but I think something ushes that person over the edge.
Spiritually, we have ALL chosen the upbringing, parents environment to build character and to Learn Lessons with people, parents and everyone.

Is it rather simplistic to beleive that just these things influence people into doing something murderous. Astrology DOES work, although I dont believe it can predict or assign certain character traits Just to murderers....

Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect. Astrology does not reliably predict the future.......But it can provide an excellent insight into the psychological make-up of people, enabling us to accurately predict their behaviour and it's resultant effects

If you intend to learn about astrology, you will need to begin with a natal chart, it need not necessarily be your own, but many choose to begin this way, in an effort to better understand their own life journey, and purpose. Astrological natal charts are as individual as a persons ‘fingerprints’ depending on where (latitude & longitude) and time of birth. It is important to note that the *time of your birth* is the most important information you can have. It is no use *guessing* the time as this will yield incorrect interpretations. Please try to get a verified birth time.

We hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. We have an ever expanding Education forum and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=12556 or try http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm
http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc/
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natalastrology.html

There are broadly speaking two main branches Astrologers fall into, Horary and natal Astrologers (but if you look at main index you will see lots more, like vocational, electional, mundane etc) will look at questions throughout different forums using techniques like Secondary Progressions, Solar Arcs, Transits, Solar returns, which can take years of studying, research and practise, but if you are truly interested, dive in, you’ll get lots of support, help and advice.

There are all types of Astrologers use this forum but mainly fall into Traditional & Western Astrology, the differences are explained here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

Anyone can ask a horary question. You do not need a birth time to use this method of astrological enquiry. What you do need is the exact time the question was clearly worded in your mind. An experienced horarist can, using the time you have asked the question and the place from which it was asked, explore a particular matter in great detail.

Horary astrology can be used to enquire about health, marriage, love affairs, work matters, travel, relocation and many other matters that affect our daily lives. It can be used to find lost things, people, pets, and many other subjects. Try not to attempt horary without first acquiring a sound knowledge of Natal chart basics though.

Horary astrology learning links
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=12782
http://www.antiquus-astrology.com/Chap2-5.html
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/tra ... ology.html
http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/les ... sson1.html

House systems
Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(ast ... escription
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp

In the beginning of Liz Greene's(famous prolific author on astrology), “Astrology for Lover's” book there is a good chapter on What astrology can and can't do.
“Astrology is baffling because it works. So, what in fact is a horoscope?
What it's not is a way of foretelling the future, or of determining whether that tall dark stranger will turn up next week. To put it briefly the horoscope is a map of the psyche of the individual. it's a kind of blueprint, a seed plan, a model of the energies and drives which make up a person. Because it's calculated precisely for time and place, it's unique,unlike the sun sign column. Even identical twins are born at least four minutes apart, and in four minutes the picture has shifted.”

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iluminaughty
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Post by iluminaughty » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:55 pm

I've studied many serial killers charts..... Many of them have harmonious aspects like grand trines.....gentle water and earth signs...with hard aspects....and a charming venus You would never suspect.....also victims share many harmonies with them.....the most sadistic brutal grotesque evil twisted ..... Make you wanna puke serial killer.....that EVER existed (well neck n neck with Albert fish)

Is here . dean corll
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag4 ... 4944a8.gif

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