Part One - The Major Arcana - 15

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Gem
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Post by Gem » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:46 pm

George that is brilliant, the Fools Journey :)

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Post by mysticcrystal » Sun May 06, 2007 6:46 pm

XV Devil/Materialism:To me, this card shows all kinds of oppression, usually man-made (the chains are loose, but the people are still bound). Opressions of all kinds including obsessions, sexual sins, drug abuse, materialistic. The bright side is that these people can break away from their chains as soon as they see their obsession/addictions and work towards freeing themselves.

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Chooky
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Post by Chooky » Tue May 29, 2007 12:43 am

This card to me is about being fixed, locked in a situation that perhaps is not good for us - relationship, whatever.  It is about fighting our demons...or not.  Can we get out of this situation...always, if we choose to...

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Post by Chooky » Tue May 29, 2007 12:44 am

Oh by the way here is the devil out of my other deck
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dreamfairy
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The Devil

Post by dreamfairy » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:35 pm

The Devil.    The couple -Their hands and feet are free, so they can get out of the chains if they really wanted to.  Being your own worst enemy.  The need to develop a positive self image and self esteem.  Suppressing emotions and feelings and staying in a situation maybe through guilt or fear.  Better the devil you know!   Jung's Shadow.
Positive side is when you see through the illusions and break free from whatever is holding you back, or looking at these problem as opportunities for growth.  Only you can set yourself free.    
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George
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Re: The Devil

Post by George » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:58 pm

dreamfairy wrote:The Devil.    The couple -Their hands and feet are free, so they can get out of the chains if they really wanted to.  Being your own worst enemy.  The need to develop a positive self image and self esteem.  Suppressing emotions and feelings and staying in a situation maybe through guilt or fear.  Better the devil you know!   Jung's Shadow.
Positive side is when you see through the illusions and break free from whatever is holding you back, or looking at these problem as opportunities for growth.  Only you can set yourself free.    
Dreamfairy
what "Jung's Shadow"?

:smt017

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dreamfairy
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The Devil

Post by dreamfairy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:05 pm

Carl Jung - Ego and Shadow.  The Ego is you sense of purpose and identity, The Shadow is your own dark side, inferior, animal qualities which the ego wishes to hide from others. An inflated ego projects its own irrational Shadow onto others and identifies them as evil.  There is also Collective Shadow, a good example of this is Nazi Germany, mass movement.   Reflecting on the Devil card I felt, other people may disagree, that the Devil could represent the Shadow, the suppression of emotions and feelings, or projecting your own Shadow by manipulating others (the two figures being controlled like puppets by the Devil). Or, like Hitler projecting his own irrational Shadow onto others (Jews) and identifying them as the evil ones, because of his obsession for the pure Aryan Race.  Obviously, the Shadow, the animal qualities, aren't all bad, if we are able to face them and control them.  I hope I haven't offended anyone by these views, its just an example, not meant to be offensive.  Dreamfairy
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George
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Re: The Devil

Post by George » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:30 pm

dreamfairy wrote:Carl Jung - Ego and Shadow.  The Ego is you sense of purpose and identity, The Shadow is your own dark side, inferior, animal qualities which the ego wishes to hide from others. An inflated ego projects its own irrational Shadow onto others and identifies them as evil.  There is also Collective Shadow, a good example of this is Nazi Germany, mass movement.   Reflecting on the Devil card I felt, other people may disagree, that the Devil could represent the Shadow, the suppression of emotions and feelings, or projecting your own Shadow by manipulating others (the two figures being controlled like puppets by the Devil). Or, like Hitler projecting his own irrational Shadow onto others (Jews) and identifying them as the evil ones, because of his obsession for the pure Aryan Race.  Obviously, the Shadow, the animal qualities, aren't all bad, if we are able to face them and control them.  I hope I haven't offended anyone by these views, its just an example, not meant to be offensive.  Dreamfairy
I assume that this is Carl Jung's theory?

thank you !  :smt006
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dreamfairy
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The Devil

Post by dreamfairy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:45 pm

Yes it is Carl Jung' s theory. Can you relate it to the Devil card or do you think I am way out in relating this theory to Jung's theory of the Shadow? Dreamfairy
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dreamfairy
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The Devil

Post by dreamfairy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:02 pm

I don't mean so much the Collective Shadow, (which I gave just to explain Jung's theory, just an example, not my own views), I mean more our own personal Shadow, our own animal instincts, suppressed feelings and emotions that block our growth? Dreamfairy
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George
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Re: The Devil

Post by George » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:41 pm

dreamfairy wrote:I don't mean so much the Collective Shadow, (which I gave just to explain Jung's theory, just an example, not my own views), I mean more our own personal Shadow, our own animal instincts, suppressed feelings and emotions that block our growth? Dreamfairy
we all related the cards to our own personal experience and education so yes i would say you not out of line to use it.  

actually, after rereading your post several times i would say it is a good example of the struggle we have in all of us, of who we are and want to be!  espeically on the dark side of the human animal.  the real question are we still after all this time bond to certain instincts like fighting, killing, etc to survie?

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dreamfairy
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The Devil

Post by dreamfairy » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:57 pm

I suppose George, sadly, there will always be certain individuals bound to the instinct of killing etc to survive.
Thanks for your views.  It is interesting reading other peoples perceptions of the tarot cards, I am learning a lot from these lessons and thankfully the majority of people attracted to these sort of sites are really special,  spiritual souls and I feel lucky to have found a site with like-minded people.   Dreamfairy
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weezerwall
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Re: Part One - The Major Arcana - 15

Post by weezerwall » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:43 pm

Gem wrote:Image

The dark side of man? The Evil one? Is this card all negative or can it show us the light and the path out of the darkness?
UH OH!!  :) "Evil" doesn't exit as an independent force - it's one that we all help create.  We can all choose to tap into the force OR not to add to it.  

This card is about the demons and devils WE create.  It's about selling our souls (freedom) in exchange for something we think we can't live without - the perfect body, boundless energy, the person of our dreams.  The devil grows out of a lack of spiritual/psychological nourishment.  The lack of light (darkness) leaves us feeling emptiness and yearning.  We live in our shadows instead of our light - choose to chain ourselves to negative emotions with links created by addiction, jealousy, excess.  We become slaves to our own demons.

When I look at this card, feelings of hopelessness, dependency, powerlessness come up.  I remember experiences in my life when I subjugated myself to things and people which were "not good" for me.  The devil in this card used to frighten me until I realized that he/she is simply a reflection of one facet of who I can be.  

The devil tells what happens when I try to take the easy way out instead of looking closely at my feelings of inadequacy and what's behind them.  When I feel "unloved", it's better to be involved with a married person than be alone.  When I feel spiritual thirst, it's SEEMS to have a drink.  When I feel cut off from the breath of life, a cigarette gives me a quick high.

The devil is my shadow but only exists because of my light.  

Warmest,
Weezer

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Gem
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Post by Gem » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:37 pm

Thanks Weezer, a very interesting side of the Devil :)

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Post by infinitii525 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:39 pm

The Devil shows our choice to stay in a bad situation. The Devil has his free hand in the air and the man and woman's hand and feet are not tied so they do have the opportunity to try. The male in the picture has his right hand out and left one on the hip and looking down at the chains as if he is contemplating escape but he is hesitant. This reminds me of addiction. The card also brings frustration and indecisiveness.

George: I love your views. Thank you for sharing them with us. I notice the the devil had the fire by the males tail but didn't know what to take from it.

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