The Tree of Good and Evil?

Discuss age old myths here. Are they facts or are they fiction?

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sunmystic
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The Tree of Good and Evil?

Post by sunmystic » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:19 pm

Could the tree of good and evil have been the "fermented" fruit of that tree? You start out good and happy :) and then if you eat enough of it you get mean or you get sick and throw up :)

Guys :) ?

Love you,

sunmystic

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Rhutobello
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Post by Rhutobello » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:40 pm

The tree of good and evil is given to us by birth....or at least the seed.

Some of us are good of Nature
Some of us are Evil of Nature

Most of us have something in between, and I feel it stay on our EGO line.

If we are a pure EGOIST, then we in most peoples eyes are Evil, because we only have thoughts about ourselves, and what gain us, we can destroy people in order to gain something our self.

IF we are pure GOOD, then we might be almost "SAINT", where we put every others need before our own, and where we might annihilate our self for the gain of others.

I think there is very few, if any, that is on each end of the tree line :)

But since I don't have read the first thread...I might be far out on the field with my answer Image

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Post by PetraVanilla » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:34 am

Fermented fruit - alcohol... something that messes with your mind and makes you lose your inhibitions, something that causes you to embarrass yourself, if you use it wrong. Knowledge can do the same, especially knowledge of evil choices. It will tempt you beyond belief. That's why we should also be careful what we expose our mind to. We need to be able to judge whether it will help us prevent evil or become perverted in our thinking. So if you study black magick, but plan to be good, make sure you don't underestimate the temptation you expose yourself to. You need to be mature enough to be able to handle it without abusing it. few of us are capable of that... there's my 2 cents!
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Rhutobello
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Post by Rhutobello » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:42 am

Yep...agree....it is like steeling....for many people steeling are not an issue, but if one first do it one time, the next comes easier, and the excuses for doing it comes more and more easy.....so yes....self control, and developing of ones owns self is an important task.

The further away from your superego you manage to go, the easier it will be to control thing, because your outlook become bigger, and your own narrow view might vanish, so also the need for doing evil thing...like steeling :)

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Post by sunmystic » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:58 pm

I agree with you guys and talking about the tree of good and evil is difficult at best. :)

The "tree of good and evil" part of the Jewish creation myth has always been an enigma to me. I have trouble getting an understanding that correlates with everything else. On one hand it could be symbolic and on the other hand could have something to do with physical reality or even both at the same time :)

Most of the creation myth actually fits physics and a possible physical reality in a scientific sense. All but the "tree of good and evil." And one bite out of that friut and all of humankind is screwed for God only knows how long. And yet the whole concept of Good and Evil is a philosophical question at best :) .

The creative chew part of the intuitive mind threw out the possiblity that an apple fell off of the Tree of Life and fermented and Adam and Eve ate it and found it good! :)

And alcohol has been historically speaking behind alot of mishchief and it and other intoxicants seem to follow humankind where ever we go and usually with unpleasent side effects to society and individual people's lives.

And when Adam and Eve left the Garden they seem to have taken the "tree of good and evil" with them but not the "tree of life." :) Oh and evil seems to have started all over again after the "Flood" when one of Noah's sons found Noah passed out drunk in Noah's own tent with his robe open. :)

Anyway I just thought I would run this by you guys and see what you thought.

love,

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Post by Rhutobello » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:30 pm

Yes...I have done me the same thoughts as you...and my conclusion to it is, our "ego" line. But just like mine explanation of my thoughts, so is also the "Tree of Good and Evil", just a picture, just so you can see branches where different forbidden fruits are on display...not just an apple.

If we imagine a line, and in one end put our higher self, which are "God alike", and in the other put Super Ego, which are "Devil like" (what most of understand with Devil) then we have the "line of Good and Evil.

When we first was created (not for me since I am more Darwin, but the line function for me anyway :) ), then we was Adam and Eva in Eden, we had no sin, we was pure, we was in our higher self.

Then one day we started on our movement, we would like to investigate a bit more then our normal good life....we would like to taste a forbidden fruit (steal, adultery,...... even black spells, mostly because it benefits our self)

Since our two Parents did this, it showed our God that we no longer was in our "Higher self", and from that we had to leave Garden of Eden, and start to live as ordinary Humans, among other creations of God.

Since then, most of us start out with no sin, but move fast toward the middle, (building of Ego)where we hopefully manage to keep equilibrium.
It seems it has become  more and more popular to investigate one self, at least in adult age, and by that move the slider toward "higher self", which never more can be reached, but which gives great benefits, because of greater outlook, and the understanding that I am not the worlds navel   Image Image

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Post by sunmystic » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:55 pm

Rhutobello wrote:Yes...I have done me the same thoughts as you...and my conclusion to it is, our "ego" line. But just like mine explanation of my thoughts, so is also the "Tree of Good and Evil", just a picture, just so you can see branches where different forbidden fruits are on display...not just an apple.

If we imagine a line, and in one end put our higher self, which are "God alike", and in the other put Super Ego, which are "Devil like" (what most of understand with Devil) then we have the "line of Good and Evil.

When we first was created (not for me since I am more Darwin, but the line function for me anyway :) ), then we was Adam and Eva in Eden, we had no sin, we was pure, we was in our higher self.

Then one day we started on our movement, we would like to investigate a bit more then our normal good life....we would like to taste a forbidden fruit (steal, adultery,...... even black spells, mostly because it benefits our self)

Since our two Parents did this, it showed our God that we no longer was in our "Higher self", and from that we had to leave Garden of Eden, and start to live as ordinary Humans, among other creations of God.

Since then, most of us start out with no sin, but move fast toward the middle, (building of Ego)where we hopefully manage to keep equilibrium.
It seems it has become  more and more popular to investigate one self, at least in adult age, and by that move the slider toward "higher self", which never more can be reached, but which gives great benefits, because of greater outlook, and the understanding that I am not the worlds navel   Image Image
I love your little pictures they are so cool!

Rhuto what you said was profound :) And I do understand what you are saying. You have kind of discribed me perfectly :) A yoga guru master once posted that I was like the demon that was loved by Brahman because of his persistance. :)

Darwinism. I am 50% Darwinism, the other 50% is that there is also something else going on out there, but I am not axactly sure what "it" is. I have dedicated my life to studing "it" though. This "something" use to be illusive but "it" is not anymore, now this "it/something" is just really really big.  

I think that evil is just a mental mechanism that one uses to over come one's fear of vulnerbility be it social or physical. And that the more fear you are, the more evil you are. Innocence is to be without fear. How one can be without any fear in this world of things is beyond my ability to understand. Having some fear creates caution and a certain amount of caution in this world of things :) is a survival necessity.

God knows no fear :) but then He started at the top and we started at the bottom. Our world in it's purity of form is "fight or flight". So most of us spend our lives going between to much fear and not enough fear and if we are wise, seeking some kind of balance. :)

Ah yes the tree of good and evil :) I am beginning to think that this whole concept requires a pint of ale :) and because it comes from grain and not a tree :) it can't be from the tree of good and evil! :)

Love you Rhuto!

sunmystic

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Post by PetraVanilla » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:40 pm

Sunmystic, very interesting what you said about fear and evil. I saw a show a long time ago, almost sure it was an episode of "Twilight Zone", where an intelligent machine kept producing humans, sustaining them and experimenting with fear, pain and evil. the more pain was inflicted and the more fear produced, the more aggressive the guy got, but also more intelligent. The machine finally explained it to the guy who started to use his intelligence and finally destroyed the machine. Fact is it produces a vicious cycle - more pain and fear, more intelligence and evil, which in turn produces more fear and pain and so on... unless you can find a way through intelligence to win over fear and keep from getting hurt, master the pain and do only good - and fully evolve in intelligence. But I wonder if intelligence alone has the ability to eliminate the duality of good and evil eventually?

Boy, I sure got philosophical here! LOL
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Post by sunmystic » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:27 pm

PetraVanilla wrote:Sunmystic, very interesting what you said about fear and evil. I saw a show a long time ago, almost sure it was an episode of "Twilight Zone", where an intelligent machine kept producing humans, sustaining them and experimenting with fear, pain and evil. the more pain was inflicted and the more fear produced, the more aggressive the guy got, but also more intelligent. The machine finally explained it to the guy who started to use his intelligence and finally destroyed the machine. Fact is it produces a vicious cycle - more pain and fear, more intelligence and evil, which in turn produces more fear and pain and so on... unless you can find a way through intelligence to win over fear and keep from getting hurt, master the pain and do only good - and fully evolve in intelligence. But I wonder if intelligence alone has the ability to eliminate the duality of good and evil eventually?

Boy, I sure got philosophical here! LOL
Petra :) I don't really know. In theory intelligence should be able to eliminate the duality of good and evil, but the more intellegent one is the tricker one's mind becomes at deluding one's self into thinking that they are always right. As a yogi, one reaches a point where their mind becomes quiet (nirodha - cestation of thought). One's mind is still active, it is just not thinking. At that point one's mind is attached to God's mind and is downloading the knowledge that God is sharing with one.

From there duality becomes less and less and then eventually goes away.

It seems to me from my experience that a person needs an example to follow before they can change. "Change", is stepping out into the unknown and the unknown causes fear. Following somebody who has been there or is there as an example makes things doable. They know about it so it is nolonger the unknown. This brings to mind the Christal Children as an example that others can follow toward peace.

Love,

sunmystic

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Post by sunmystic » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Petra, I got things down to one fear that is the foundation to all fears, "the fear of being vulnerable."

The problem is that "the fear of being vulnerable" is a valid fear in this world of things. So the key becomes to not dwell on it and to be careful what other fears one attaches to it.

How the human mind sets up programming to create a personality and how that personality is constantly checking itself to make sure it is safe, by it's definition of "safe", is an interesting study. :)

love,

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Post by PetraVanilla » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:57 pm

sunmystic wrote:Petra, I got things down to one fear that is the foundation to all fears, "the fear of being vulnerable."

The problem is that "the fear of being vulnerable" is a valid fear in this world of things. So the key becomes to not dwell on it and to be careful what other fears one attaches to it.

How the human mind sets up programming to create a personality and how that personality is constantly checking itself to make sure it is safe, by it's definition of "safe", is an interesting study. :)

love,

sunmystic
Sunmystic... I just have to share my lynx medicine in this case; the lynx is a lot like me and became my spirit guide... along with the owl and the hummingbird...

The lynx is very territorial and will go to great lengths to protect its hunting grounds.  If lynx is in your dreams and visions, you may be in  need of spiritual or mental protection.  The lynx keen nose can warn against negative invasions.

As a solitary animal who hunts and lives alone much of its life, the lynx often comes to those who are loners by desire or design.  Lessons of independence and self-reliance are part of its offering, but sometimes the message may be one to console a lonely heart or spirit.

Because of its coloring, size and stealth, the lynx is able to blend and sometimes appear to disappear in its environment.  This medicine is valuable in moving unseen between planes and remaining in the background, unobserved and not up front in relationships and events. Once the lynx has successfully tracked its prey, he will sit and quietly observe the whole environment before moving for the kill.  Watching for intruders, other prey and passersby, the lynx will absorb all the various activities and weigh all the options before taking action.  These characteristics are valuable lessons life in general terms for humans.  Silent observation is a great power that allows one see things unnoticed by others. As we follow the power of good silence, we are able to hear the higher purpose intended by the Creator.
Petra
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Learn about what I do :) http://petrasando.us

sunmystic
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Post by sunmystic » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:49 pm

PetraVanilla wrote:
sunmystic wrote:Petra, I got things down to one fear that is the foundation to all fears, "the fear of being vulnerable."

The problem is that "the fear of being vulnerable" is a valid fear in this world of things. So the key becomes to not dwell on it and to be careful what other fears one attaches to it.

How the human mind sets up programming to create a personality and how that personality is constantly checking itself to make sure it is safe, by it's definition of "safe", is an interesting study. :)

love,

sunmystic
Sunmystic... I just have to share my lynx medicine in this case; the lynx is a lot like me and became my spirit guide... along with the owl and the hummingbird...

The lynx is very territorial and will go to great lengths to protect its hunting grounds.  If lynx is in your dreams and visions, you may be in  need of spiritual or mental protection.  The lynx keen nose can warn against negative invasions.

As a solitary animal who hunts and lives alone much of its life, the lynx often comes to those who are loners by desire or design.  Lessons of independence and self-reliance are part of its offering, but sometimes the message may be one to console a lonely heart or spirit.

Because of its coloring, size and stealth, the lynx is able to blend and sometimes appear to disappear in its environment.  This medicine is valuable in moving unseen between planes and remaining in the background, unobserved and not up front in relationships and events. Once the lynx has successfully tracked its prey, he will sit and quietly observe the whole environment before moving for the kill.  Watching for intruders, other prey and passersby, the lynx will absorb all the various activities and weigh all the options before taking action.  These characteristics are valuable lessons life in general terms for humans.  Silent observation is a great power that allows one see things unnoticed by others. As we follow the power of good silence, we are able to hear the higher purpose intended by the Creator.
Petra, what you said works for me :)

I am more of a lion hound with a short life expentency because I have no sense :)

The example that you set on this message board is good for an old fellow like me :)

love you!

sunmystic

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Post by happyme » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:44 pm

PetraVanilla wrote:Fermented fruit - alcohol... something that messes with your mind and makes you lose your inhibitions, something that causes you to embarrass yourself, if you use it wrong. Knowledge can do the same, especially knowledge of evil choices. It will tempt you beyond belief. That's why we should also be careful what we expose our mind to. We need to be able to judge whether it will help us prevent evil or become perverted in our thinking. So if you study black magick, but plan to be good, make sure you don't underestimate the temptation you expose yourself to. You need to be mature enough to be able to handle it without abusing it. few of us are capable of that... there's my 2 cents!
I accept Petra's wisdom on this, but at the same time we must also be mindful of fear of the unknown or darkness. This too will attract more of it in your life or add more potential to its power in your life then. It all seems to come back down to a right balance of the opposites. Finding the right balance of all opposing energies in our life will bring us closer to our spiritual goals which will ultimately equate to the evolution of our souls.

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Post by sunmystic » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:44 pm

happyme wrote:
PetraVanilla wrote:Fermented fruit - alcohol... something that messes with your mind and makes you lose your inhibitions, something that causes you to embarrass yourself, if you use it wrong. Knowledge can do the same, especially knowledge of evil choices. It will tempt you beyond belief. That's why we should also be careful what we expose our mind to. We need to be able to judge whether it will help us prevent evil or become perverted in our thinking. So if you study black magick, but plan to be good, make sure you don't underestimate the temptation you expose yourself to. You need to be mature enough to be able to handle it without abusing it. few of us are capable of that... there's my 2 cents!
I accept Petra's wisdom on this, but at the same time we must also be mindful of fear of the unknown or darkness. This too will attract more of it in your life or add more potential to its power in your life then. It all seems to come back down to a right balance of the opposites. Finding the right balance of all opposing energies in our life will bring us closer to our spiritual goals which will ultimately equate to the evolution of our souls.
Guys, I have to get a post credit here so I am gong to run a:

:)

love you!

sunmystic

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Post by PetraVanilla » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:39 am

LMAO, Sunmystic... oh wait I'll come up with more stuff to get our brains going, soon... You will get plenty of posting credit... oh btw... can someone please get my unlock code and register my software? - I AM TOO BUSY POSTING!! HAHAHA!
Petra
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