Illusion of family relations

dattaswami · Post by **dattaswami** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:18 am

Illusion of family relations
All the fights between the human beings in the name of family-outsider, caste, sex, nationality, religion, language etc., are only due to the illusion of Maya that is prevailing over the soul.  Arjuna killed several kings in the battles previously when his brother performed Rajasuya sacrifice.  But in the karukshetra war, Arjuna could not kill the opponents since they were his relatives.  You are taking bribe from an outsider for the sake of over enjoyment of your family and you are going to hell for that.  Your sin is not shared by your family members who enjoyed the extra wealth.  On this point Valmaki, robber was transformed in to sage.

Boys are dejected and some times commit suicide since the unreal love and the unreal beauty of a girl is not attained.  This is the climax of the illusion (Maya)! With reference to Maha Maya, this Maya (beauty and love) are unreal.  

If you cannot come out of the illusion in the lowest level, how can you cross the other levels of illusion like Maha Maya and Mula Maya to attain God?  Arjuna was also overcome by this basic illusion and treated the unreal relatives as the real kith and kin.  He was unable to identify the Lord acting as his driver as his real kith and kin.  He was worried about the incidental death of those unreal kit and kin.  Therefore, the Lord laughed at the very outset (Prahasanniva….Gita) because even the lowest Maya was not conquered by him.  With the help of analysis of Maya, all the devotees in this universe should be united as one family irrespective of religion, caste etc.

stan · Post by **stan** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:09 pm

If thine eye be single thy whole body shall be full of Light but if thine Eye be divided how great is that darkness, said Jesus. Little truths are but Maya.

theancient_dr · Post by **theancient_dr** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:03 am

Greetings to all--------

Is it not true that there can only be spiritual family?

Therefore would it perhaps be--
--all physical family is an illusion
since it is a part of a physical world that has no true meaning.

Can it not be that Spirit associations here are temporary for this incarnation
but in the scheme of total spiriutality are they temporary.

Any association here in this sphere that is spiriutally satisfying
may become one that you are comfortable with and this is good
----but ---family is an illusion here....but may be satisfying to some that are close spiritually.....

peace and love to all there from all here........poppa

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:57 pm

theancient_dr wrote:Greetings to all--------

Is it not true that there can only be spiritual family?

Therefore would it perhaps be--
--all physical family is an illusion
since it is a part of a physical world that has no true meaning.

Can it not be that Spirit associations here are temporary for this incarnation
but in the scheme of total spiriutality are they temporary.

Any association here in this sphere that is spiriutally satisfying
may become one that you are comfortable with and this is good
----but ---family is an illusion here....but may be satisfying to some that are close spiritually.....

peace and love to all there from all here........poppa

Where there are two or many, is this not illusion, and is the main point here? Question? Is it not true that in becoming one with the beloved that even the last desire to become one with God must also die? The last desire - is it not also part of the illusion? Is it not true than that which lives and dies-is Ego?

donnaanddais · Post by **donnaanddais** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:42 am

my personal opinion is that you all need to lighten up and give your 'unreal' families at least half a chance. it might count somewhere towards your unselfishness for your next life!!

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:35 pm

donnaanddais wrote:my personal opinion is that you all need to lighten up and give your 'unreal' families at least half a chance. it might count somewhere towards your unselfishness for your next life!!

Hi! I can understand how this all sounds. We should all be in the crazy house correct? My family is loved. You can ask them. With that discovered, one would then wonder, what are these guys talking about? After all, we are not crazy just because you do not understand what is being said. When you judge another the first rule of a human being is that before you engage your mouth. you engage your brain and heart and and you will understand when someone says. before judging another, YOU must know what the other knows first to make any judgement. Is that not common sense my friend?  

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:44 am

I think this MAYA thing is overstated. Maya is not all bad, and even enjoyable as long as you do not get wrapped into it. It is like watching a movie. While you are watching it, you are enraptured and enjoying it, even living it. But yet you know that this is not real. Then again, if you do not let go of that reality that lives outside the movie experience, you will never be able to enjoy the movie and will come out [after the lifetime] as someone who spent a lot of money for the movie [one lifetime] and came out with neither any knowledge nor joy, but just with a lot of guilt and sense of failure!

Simple indeed!

Rohiniranjan

[quote="dattaswami"][color=blue][b]Illusion of family relations[/b][/color]
All the fights between the human beings in the name of family-outsider, caste, sex, nationality, religion, language etc., are only due to the illusion of Maya that is prevailing over the soul. Arjuna killed several kings in the battles previously when his brother performed Rajasuya sacrifice. But in the karukshetra war, Arjuna could not kill the opponents since they were his relatives. You are taking bribe from an outsider for the sake of over enjoyment of your family and you are going to hell for that. Your sin is not shared by your family members who enjoyed the extra wealth. On this point Valmaki, robber was transformed in to sage.

Boys are dejected and some times commit suicide since the unreal love and the unreal beauty of a girl is not attained. This is the climax of the illusion (Maya)! With reference to Maha Maya, this Maya (beauty and love) are unreal.

If you cannot come out of the illusion in the lowest level, how can you cross the other levels of illusion like Maha Maya and Mula Maya to attain God? Arjuna was also overcome by this basic illusion and treated the unreal relatives as the real kith and kin. He was unable to identify the Lord acting as his driver as his real kith and kin. He was worried about the incidental death of those unreal kit and kin. Therefore, the Lord laughed at the very outset (Prahasanniva….Gita) because even the lowest Maya was not conquered by him. With the help of analysis of Maya, all the devotees in this universe should be united as one family irrespective of religion, caste etc.[/quote]

ksri10 · Post by **ksri10** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:18 am

MAYA IS BUT AN IMPEDIMENT TO FINAL STAGES IN SPIRITUAL QUEST.
ATTACHMENT TOWARDS DETACHMENT .......ONLY HELPS THEN.

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:00 pm

[quote="ksri10"]MAYA IS BUT AN IMPEDIMENT TO FINAL STAGES IN SPIRITUAL QUEST.
ATTACHMENT TOWARDS DETACHMENT .......ONLY HELPS THEN.[/quote]

I thought Maya was the last 'pit stop'. No more worldly goodies beyond that point until Shangrila! So as they say, the last chance to say, "fill'er up please!"

Votive · Post by **Votive** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:27 am

Is it again not Maya which weaves a web of illusion that if one detaches oneself from others then the quest for spirituality becomes easier?

It does, perhaps, since one escapes the duties assigned, the debts remaining undischarged , the karma still undefined, the precious resources not utilised.

Maya, complex yet so simple!

Votive

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:47 am

[quote="Votive"]Is it again not Maya which weaves a web of illusion that if one detaches oneself from others then the quest for spirituality becomes easier?

It does, perhaps, since one escapes the duties assigned, the debts remaining undischarged , the karma still undefined, the precious resources not utilised.

Maya, complex yet so simple!

Votive[/quote]

Dear Votive,

Perhaps what you wonder about in your first para is born out of Maya but since that is what most of the Teachers and Saints advise, namely to embrace detachment (oxymoronical or paradoxical though it may sound!) and to shun desires etc etc, as the recipe for spiritual success and higher realization, nirvana etc.

Your second paragraph is describing the deluded spiritualist, the socially-inept escapee, the shirker! That is a judgment that would be difficult to make because it could be wrong, presumptuous particularly if generalized lightly (not implying at all that someone of your caliber would even do it ever. But others might, as we see in our world daily! Stereotyping, discrimination, scapegoating -- are almost the scourge of and by some professions in this world as you may have witnessed, I am sure).

I think in the case of each of us, in our micro-moments of perfect equillibrium (ni-spanda), the transition moment when energy is formless, and neither a wave nor a particle, the lull before the storm as some have depicted -- we are all given a flashing glimpse of a state where there is no karma and no maya. Only through determination and consistently choosing can we finally begin to remember and want and make such moments happen longer and longer until finally it is all over and permanent!

For the rest of us sustaining ourself from one node of equillibrium to the next, it is wise to remember. Neither Maya nor Ram are truly ours, hence the two keep coming into our lives -- until we finally decide!

ksri10 · Post by **ksri10** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:58 am

It is said in Sri Bhagwad Gita ............By Bhagwan HImself......to perform all our duties, both towards family and the Society we live in, with a sense of total detachment, but with love. Then with such an equanimous mental frame, spiritual quest is possible. Thus the web weaved by Maya does not entrap us.

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:18 am

[quote="ksri10"]It is said in Sri Bhagwad Gita ............By Bhagwan HImself......to perform all our duties, both towards family and the Society we live in, with a sense of total detachment, but with love. Then with such an equanimous mental frame, spiritual quest is possible. Thus the web weaved by Maya does not entrap us.[/quote]

Pray tell us great unwashed ants, Oh Great One: What is this Sri Bhagwad Gita and who is Bhagwan and why must we believe in what you spake unto us?  :smt017

Why must love be coupled with detachment? Why not just detachment and isolation in some Himalayan cave??

<more later after you respond>

Votive · Post by **Votive** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:43 am

For some, who may have been blessed and having completed their Dharma or duties, the path of physical detachment is available.
For others, it is even difficult to define where the duties end and the desires begin....
As Vivekananda pleaded "Ma, mujhe manushya bana do"..."Mother, make me a human being".
For most of us common persons, the answers are not finite and available easily.
And in any case there have to be and there are, perhaps, more than a finite set of answers all around.
For, if the formless was the stable equilibrium then there was no need for the form at all.
If the formless is the infinite then where is the need for finite creatures like us ?
If time and space are not linked then energy has no relevance.
So many 'ifs' and as many 'buts'!

Walk on then, till the path is seen, till there is energy to count steps...

Votive

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:10 am

[quote="Votive"]For some, who may have been blessed and having completed their Dharma or duties, the path of physical detachment is available.
For others, it is even difficult to define where the duties end and the desires begin....
As Vivekananda pleaded "Ma, mujhe manushya bana do"..."Mother, make me a human being".
For most of us common persons, the answers are not finite and available easily.
And in any case there have to be and there are, perhaps, more than a finite set of answers all around.
For, if the formless was the stable equilibrium then there was no need for the form at all.
If the formless is the infinite then where is the need for finite creatures like us ?
If time and space are not linked then energy has no relevance.
So many 'ifs' and as many 'buts'!

Walk on then, till the path is seen, till there is energy to count steps...

Votive[/quote]

Yes Votive, you do speak like a sage! I am sure you are one!

A friend some years ago shared her lifestory with me some years ago.

An immigrant who moved into a very strange (culturally for her but not her husband) country and trying to carve a career in literally a glaciar of ICE gave birth to a child, and then another. The second was difficult in many ways and in physical ways. Suddenly magic entered their lives and alternative healing showed those who would care to learn, its potential.

Lives changed from that point as they tend to when energy and healing enters our realities!

Time, place and reality are incidental, Votive!

All each of us needs to remember is that VERY FIRST moment in this lifetime when we felt anxious and hungry and reached out instinctively for what we much later and eventually figured out and recognized and accepted as our MOTHER in this lifetime! [[We shall be cared for forever as we were in that first fleeting moment of anxiety and loneliness!]]

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