TIME

[stan]

IT"S BEEN SAID THAT MOST OF US ARE NOT SEEING THE PRESENT BUT ACTUALLY VEIWING THE PAST. LIKE YOU THINK YOUR HEARING ME AND THINKING YOU SEE  ME BUT YOUR SIMPLY SEEING THE PAST. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT CAN EXPLAIN  THIS RIDDLE OF SORTS?

[Rhutobello]

Well....I think it is a very philosophic question....with no much everyday value.

What is present.....it can be a definition question.....and most of us agree it is when we interact...when we live now in this moment.

It can also be defined as the action I do in this milli second....when I have put down one letter...I have put it down..it's already past when I put down my next...and when you can read my post....it's way past....if everything is counted in milli-seconds.

The same is when we talk...as soon as your words have left your mouth...it has happen...it can't be taken back...so you talked not in present...but in past.
When we see someone walk...then the movement is done...it is past.

This has in my opinion only interest for thinkers (not that I am such )

Everything is what we define it as, what is more important is that we are able to communicate, live in the moment,and as long as we can do that without waiting for a message, we do it in real time....even if this time is defined as past, present or future

[stan]

Well....I think it is a very philosophic question....with no much everyday value.

PHILOSOPHICAL? SOME WOULD CLASSIFY MY QUESTION AS SUCH AND OTHERS WHO HAVE TOUCHED THE ETERNAL NOW WOULD SAY IT IS OF THE GREATEST VALUE IN EVERYDAY LIFE. IT IS WHAT IT IS TO THE PURVEYOR.

SO, I HAVE GIVEN YET, ANOTHER HINT.[/b]

[Rhutobello]

TIME AND SPACE
Theologically, the Vedic literature discusses time as a potency of God – a natural emanation of the smallest material particle that God creates. This atomic particle (called anu) is among the fundamental building blocks of material nature. The Bhagavatam elaborates, explaining how atoms take up material space and are consequently subject to time (since time is measured in space). Because both space and time are material, the Bhagavatam connects them to maya, the illusion. In other words all changes that result from the vicissitudes of time are temporary, like a dream. Only Krishna and His avatars - the spiritual domain – are beyond the dictates of time and its influence.

However, in some ways time does appear to exist in the spiritual realm. Krishna rises in the morning, milks the cows, then eats breakfast, goes to the forest with His friends and the cows, plays all day, and in the evening returns to Vrindavan village, etc. It must be noted, though, that all these pastimes exist simultaneously. Each moment is eternally present. Since this constitutes an unfathomable concept of time, the Vedic literature concludes that, in the spiritual realm, time (as we know it) is conspicious by its absence.


But again.....it is a definition....we live now...communicate now.....or if we agree and define it as : we lived 1000 years ago we communicated 1000 years ago....the only thing that change is the definition.. and most of what we do are defined by people and can be something else if we agree upon it and change it...2 might even be defined as 4..in my opinion

[stan]

But again.....it is a definition....we live now...communicate now.....or if we agree and define it as : we lived 1000 years ago we communicated 1000 years ago....the only thing that change is the definition.. and most of what we do are defined by people and can be something else if we agree upon it and change it...2 might even be defined as 4..in my opinion


Only Maya changes. TRUTH is changeless and seekers must seek as they are drawn by the CHANGELESS ONE.

[Rhutobello]

Only Maya changes. TRUTH is changeless and seekers must seek as they are drawn by the CHANGELESS ONE.

Yes...okay....but what I don't understand is....what change in us if we accept that we live in the future or past ?

Do we not go on just like today...just with another truth or definition?

Can't we any longer communicate like we do today?
What change in our life?

Nothing...just the truth...but the truth is the definition of our life, and change according to the truth we live under....our life in itself don't change...more then those change we ourself make....the definition can't change anything.

It's just like when the earth was defined as flat, where we could fall off at the edges....how many do you believe fall off?

When they discovered that the earth was a circle....it was the definition that changed....nothing for us living souls.

When Einstein made his great theory, we got another definition about how we managed not to fall of the earth, when we visit  down under.....but nothing in our life changed, and so we can go on and on....the truth is the definition we agree upon....that be Christianity, Islam, or that 2+2= 4 and not 8....but if we can agree upon...then tomorrow 2+2 =8....there will be no change in items....just in the definition.

[stan]

Only Maya changes. TRUTH is changeless and seekers must seek as they are drawn by the CHANGELESS ONE.

Yes...okay....but what I don't understand is....what change in us if we accept that we live in the future or past ?

Definitions, titles, names are but His disguises. What changes? Our life changes. We still do what we do but each step we take is now stride for stride with Him. We are in accord. Of like mind. We are born anew. If there is suffering then help to alleviate the suffering. The matter of this topic is in WHO is the doer. Rob not God!

[Rhutobello]

Yea..but then this time you are talking about is in your belief....and by having this belief...you change your action according to this belief, you get other goals which again open up for other definitions.

Almost all Religions or beliefs in God have the stand that you shall be judged on the day you leave this world.

And this I might agree upon, or I have nothing against the thought.

Then we have the statement " You shall not have other God's then me", this I think is in every Religion as a major rule.

Let us take two death interview: the pick of Religion is just a pick...none is better ore worse then other....all give great comfort to their followers.

God :Have you believed in me?

The believer : Yes Sir, I have followed your word, I have been to mass each week, I have paid to the church for my misdeed even if I had to pay each week, but I think I took it back on a better business, and I only lured those people who did not believe in you.....I think......but never from people who followed me to church.

I have fought for you against those other 70%  of human population who don't share my belief in you.
I find it quiet alright that they are doomed, we have given them a chance  to convert.
They are all slow learners and I can understand that we had many conflicts with them, they are telling lies and try to convert our members to their beliefs...what a shame.

Then Let us take the more open soul.

God: Have you believed in me ?

The open Soul: Yes Sir, I have tried to follow your word. I have tried to do to other what I hope they would do to me. I have not always success, but I do as good as I can.
I respect all those other who believe in other names of you, they all want to worship you....but they struggle over names and how to best achieve this, this lead to quarrels and fight among them....but in the end they all end up on your doorstep, because you are the one..the God.

Again this is Roleplay....it is not the truth....but hopefully it is food for the brain

[stan]

Yea..but then this time you are talking about is in your belief....and by having this belief...you change your action according to this belief, you get other goals which again open up for other definitions.
THE WORLDLY MAN PRAISES HIS OWN EFFORTS. THE WISE MAN SANCTIFIES THE WORKS.

Then we have the statement " You shall not have other God's then me", this I think is in every Religion as a major rule.
WESTERN MAN WORSHIPS THE RATIONALE TEMPLE EVEN THOUGH THAT COMMAND IS REPEATED.

ONE MIGHT WONDER WHAT GOD THINKS IN THIS STORY AS WELL! HE MAY SAY TO THE ONE MAN---FOOL. I AM NOT IMPRESSED WITH YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS AND YOUR EFFORTS. DEPART FROM ME WORKERS OF INIGUITY! TO THE OTHER--WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE MY CREATIONS!

[Rhutobello]

Since I assume we don't discuss creations...it most more be what we believe are some of the truth behind God and us.

If you realy believe in one Religion,....that only one has the truth,....yours,....that all other are doomed,....that all others are here in vein,....or don't manage to see the light because they are blended by another light,....and if you believe that you on the day of judgement shall walk true heavens gates and let the rest 70-95 % of the worlds population go to "other places",....well then I rather don't believe in your God,....because your God will be a cruel one,....one that has no passion for any soul,... one that show a judging behaviour over thing no human mind have any hope to understand,.....it will not be the "loving" "Understanding" God that I believe in.

On the other hand, all those points I will despise in such a God, I know many people from different religions carry around,....I can understand them in a human being,....because we are far from any God,...even if we Judge as we should have been one.

This is not an attack on your belief or any belief....it is more a question if one really believe that God is so narrow minded.

[stan]

I understand the over all tone of your response to me and if I am being logical here, I take it you were not pleased with what God may have said, to the two religious men? I would like for you to explain where the offense is? What would Your God have responded with Rhotobello?

[Rhutobello]

One of the most difficult discussions that can be done is discussions about belief or Religion.

I will again point out....I am not attacking you....I hope not that I have offended you....You have not offended me....

My whole message is :  I believe that God is bigger then any Religion....that all contain some truth....that all do something good for those who need a firm place to put their worries.

What I don't like about Religions is when they start to tell that they are the only truth,.....because if that was the fact,...and only those who believed in that Religion should attain eternal life,....then it would all be wrong...in my opinion.

Those Religions we call major today...are all fairly young seen in the Human perspective.

Will all who believed in anything else...before any of these Religions was made be doomed?  or would they more meet my kind of God?

Is it the belief that is important to God..or is it your actions true your life?

Will those  Vikings who Christened our Country under the motto "believe in Christ..or Die" will those people, who carried out God wish, be well received?..and those killed...will they always stay in the big void?

I think I better stop there....again Stan...it's not an Attack on you. not attack on any...and no offense taken and hopefully none given...It is all how I feel about thing...just like you feel about yours...none of us have the real truth

[stan]

I think I better stop there....again Stan...it's not an Attack on you. not attack on any...and no offense taken and hopefully none given...It is all how I feel about thing...just like you feel about yours...none of us have the real truth.

I feel your passion and no offense taken as well. You state, that none of us have the truth and while you are passionate about this, you infer, that your truth is superior above all other religions and persons who stand on faith. Question if we eliminate Faith in any one religion et., etc. etc., in that no one knows, what are the ramifications for mankind on an individual basis? No faith equals what?

There is but one Truth and one Way only. Lets take something  Jesus said, "THERE IS COMING A TIME WHEN YOU SHALL NEITHER WORSHIP HERE OR THERE, BUT IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH" He was speaking to one of a another belief system. Many minds have interpreted this saying to mean such and such and I'm sure even now you have framed this to mean what it does to you. Here we have an example of the reaction to His saying being many little truths. Are all correct? It was once written that many strands make up the one True religion. Was Jesus, saying the same thing? So, Truth is not to be found in temples, or rivers, but in the Spirit. Within you and within me is where Truth can be discovered. Your fine with this so far. I find that when I examine I tend to set aside for example Christianty, and other names ascribed to a particular belief system. I compare the teachings to the Truth.

[Rhutobello]

Within you and within me is where Truth can be discovered. Your fine with this so far. I find that when I examine I tend to set aside for example Christianty, and other names ascribed to a particular belief system. I compare the teachings to the Truth.

Yes I agree.

But by agreeing, we must also be open for that fact that no human is alike, and since we all shall discover the truth within....it is bound to be a bit different....so none of us possess the whole truth....just fragments of it...because we as humans are way to small to discover the whole truth...we have no capacity for imagining such a thing

[stan]

Within you and within me is where Truth can be discovered. Your fine with this so far. I find that when I examine I tend to set aside for example Christianty, and other names ascribed to a particular belief system. I compare the teachings to the Truth.

Yes I agree.

But by agreeing, we must also be open for that fact that no human is alike, and since we all shall discover the truth within....it is bound to be a bit different....so none of us possess the whole truth....just fragments of it...because we as humans are way to small to discover the whole truth...we have no capacity for imagining such a thing

YES, GOD CAN NOT BE KNOWN BY THE RATIONALE TEMPLE. WITH THAT OUT OF THE WAY LETS GET TO THE MEAT AND SPEAK OF SPIRITUAL THINGS AS YOU AND I SEE IT. DESCRIBE THE GOD YOU SERVE AND YOU.