The Message of Christ

Spiritual mysticism for mystics and magical topics of any kind.

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lighting strikes twice
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Post by lighting strikes twice » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:26 pm

Angel1 wrote:Yes. We agree on the verses that you posted. But I don't see where they contradict anything that I have written anywhere in this thread.



How can one describe the color of green to a man who has been blind from birth?
:smt005                     You have got to hear the first message! Your in prison and as long you think your free, you can't escape!  :smt005

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Andypants
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Post by Andypants » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:44 pm

Like the saying goes..
The best slave is the one who thinks he's free!

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suzisco
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Post by suzisco » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:31 pm

Of course we are not free, we constrained by governments who know your every move and screw every penny they can legally take from you.  What you have left you share with your church, another fine institution that needs your money to evangelise the world and convert all heathens.  Freedom is an outmoded and out dated concept.  We are all sold to some kind of slavery and there isn't anyone who is going to save you from it.

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Andypants
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Post by Andypants » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:47 pm

Look at the concept of money.
Created from nothing by those who control the system, perfectly rationed so noone has to much.
Like a puppet show in the stage of life, we turn to and fro seeing always the show, while the truth waits within always waiting for the moment we might turn inward and seek after its goodness.
The money itself is the greatest deception, people believing it truly has value, when in truth, that which is true before the eyes of God, 1 act of love buys more then a world of petty cash.
Therefore money is a lie, and worth no more attention then needs be to survive.
As you can earn all the money in the world, and still be poorer then any man alive.
And once you spend that money it is gone, and you are left with nothing.
But you cannot spend enough of the love that is within, as the more you give of it, the greater it is.
Of such little worth do the things of the world seem when one discovers the true treasure within.

lighting strikes twice
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Post by lighting strikes twice » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:40 am

Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give God what is His!  :smt005 Jesus!

lighting strikes twice
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Post by lighting strikes twice » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:30 pm

check it out!  :smt005





Jesus Christ on the Inerrancy of Scripture

by Dr. David Livingston

There is considerable debate these days concerning the inerrancy (infallibility) of Scripture. The authority of God's Word is the main issue. But, if one yields to the authority of Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMoshiach), he must, in turn, yield to Christ's view of the Scripture itself. Anyone and everyone who claims to be a Christian (a believer under the authority of Christ) must hold to the same view He did! What was it?
I. Negative Aspects
(an argument from silence--but a loud silence!)

Jesus (Yeshua) never belittled Scripture (as some modern critics do), or set it aside (as the Jewish leaders of His day had done with their Oral Traditions), or criticized it (although He criticized those who misused it), or contradicted it (although He rejected many interpretations of it), or opposed it (although He sometimes was free or interpretive with it), nor spoke in any way as "higher" critics do of the Old Testament (Tanakh).
II. Christ's Use of Scripture

As L. Gaussen has asserted, "We are not afraid to say it: when we hear the Son of God quote the Scriptures, every thing is said, in our view, on their divine inspiration -- we need no further testimony. All the declarations of the Bible are, no doubt, equally divine; but this example of the Savior of the world has settled the question for us at once. This proof requires neither long nor learned researches; it is grasped by the hand of a child as powerfully as by that of a doctor. Should any doubt, then, assail your soul let it behold Him in the presence of the Scriptures!" 1

 1. He knew the Scriptures thoroughly, even to words and verb tenses. He obviously had either memorized vast portions or knew it instinctively:
    John 7:15.2
 2. He believed every word of Scripture. All the prophecies concerning Himself were fulfilled 3, and He believed beforehand they would be. 4
 3. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction.

    Some Examples of Historical facts

        * Luke 11:51 - Abel was a real individual
        * Matthew. 24:37-39 - Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
        * John 8:56-58 - Abraham
        * Matthew 10:15;  11:23, 24  (Luke 10:12) - Sodom and Gomorrah
        * Luke 17:28-32 - Lot (and wife!)
        * Matthew 8:11 - Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
        * John 6:31, 49, 58 - Manna
        * John 3:14 - Serpent
        * Matthew 12:39-41 - Jonah (vs.42 - Sheba)
        * Matthew 24:15 - Daniel and Isaiah

 4. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
        * Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah):   Matthew 19:7, 8;  Mark 7:10,  12:26 ("Book of Moses" - the Torah);  Luke 5:14;  16:29, 31;  24:27, 44 ("Christ's Canon");  John 1:17;  5:45, 46;  7:19; ("The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.")
        * Isaiah wrote "both" Isaiah's:  Mark 7:6-13;  John 12:37-41.
        * Jonah wrote Jonah:  Matthew 12:39-41.
        * Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15.

 5. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit's inspiration, even though the pen was held by men:
    Matthew 19:4, 5;  22:31, 32, 43;  Mark 12:26;  Luke 20:37.
 6. He believed Scripture was more powerful than His miracles:
    Luke 16:29, 31.
 7. He actually quoted it in overthrowing Satan! The 0. T. Scriptures were the arbiter in every dispute:
    Matthew 4;  Luke 16:29, 31.
 8. He quoted Scripture as the basis for his own teaching. His ethics were the same as what we find already written in Scripture:
    Matthew 7:12;  19:18, 19;  22:40;  Mark 7:9, 13;  10:19;  12:24,29-31;  Luke 18:20.
 9. He warned against replacing it with something else, or adding or subtracting from it. The Jewish leaders in His day had added to it with their Oral Traditions:
    Matthew 5:17;  15:1-9;  22:29; (cf. 5:43,44);  Mark. 7:1-12. (Destroying faith in the Bible as God's Word will open the door today to a "new" Tradition.)
10. He will judge all men in the last day, as Messiah and King, on the basis of His infallible Word committed to writing by fallible men, guided by the infallible Holy Spirit:
    Matthew 25:31;  John 5:22, 27;  12:48;  Romans 2:16.
11. He made provision for the New Testament (B'rit Hadashah) by sending the Holy Spirit (the Ruach HaKodesh). We must note that He Himself never wrote one word of Scripture although He is the Word of God Himself (the living Torah in flesh and blood, see John, chapter 1). He committed the task of all writing of the Word of God to fallible men -- guided by the infallible Holy Spirit. The apostles' words had the same authority as Christ's:
    Matthew 10:14, 15;  Luke 10:16;  John 13:20;  14:22;  15:26, 27;  16:12-14.
12. He not only was not jealous of the attention men paid to the Bible (denounced as "bibliolatry" by some), He reviled them for their ignorance of it:
    Matthew 22:29;  Mark 12:24.
13. Nor did Jesus worship Scripture. He honored it -- even though written by men.

The above leaves no room but to conclude that our Lord Jesus Christ considered the canon of Scripture as God's Word, written by the hand of men.

Although some religious leaders profess to accept Scripture as "God's Word," their low view of "inspiration" belies the fact. They believe and teach that Scripture is, to a very significant degree, man's word. Many of their statements are in essential disagreement with those of Jesus Christ. From the evidence of their books, we conclude that some Christian leaders are opposite to Christ in His regard for the authority, the inspiration, and the inerrancy of Scripture.

And now, the most important point.
III. Jesus Christ Was Subject to Scripture

Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders' view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together "Word of Man."  Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.

However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God's Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God's will, not His own, and not man's. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written -- as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. We cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament:
Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53-56;  Mark 9:12,13;  Luke 4:17-21; 18:31-33; 22:37;  24:44-47.

He Himself IS the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.

This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus' attitude and become subject BOTH to Him as Living Word (living Torah) AND to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.


Footnotes

 1. Gaussen, L., The Plenary Inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, (Chicago: The Bible Inst. Colportage Association, n.d.), p. 93.
 2. Jesus need not verify every passage in the Canon or else we would find the whole Old Testament requoted in the New Testament, which is unnecessary. He verifies enough of it to assure us of complete approval of it all, including passages from all but a few books. Yet those also were in His Canon. He did not refute any of them.
 3. A good summary of fulfilled prophecy, see:
    Wenham, J. W., Our Lord's View of the Old Testament, London: Tyndale Press (1953), pp. 23, 24.
 4. See:  Matthew 26:53-56;  Luke 24:25-27;  John 5:39-47.
 5. The Pentateuch is but one book in five parts. Meredith Kline's Treaty of the Great King, has demonstrated convincingly that it was written by one person as a unity. Therefore, Christ's reference to any part of it as written by Moses infers He believed it was all written by Moses.


The holy Scriptures . . .
make you wise
to accept God's salvation (Hebrew yeshua)
by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMoshiach).
The whole Bible was given to us
by inspiration from God
and is useful to teach us
what is true
and to make us realize
what is wrong in our lives;
it straightens us out
and helps us do what is right.
It is God's way of making us
well prepared at every point,
fully equipped
to do good to everyone.

II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15-17, Living Bible

This paper is an excerpt from Dr. Livingston's M.A. Thesis titled, A Critique of Dewey Beegle's "Inspiration of Scripture".



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janke
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Jesus Christ the Tryth, the Light and the Way

Post by janke » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:55 am

Jesus Christ who died and rose again is the only way to eternal life

kybunker
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Post by kybunker » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:16 pm

Once again another example of I'm right I can't hear where anyone else is right, Only what I say is right,
This is the reason I decided to find god on myown,
Main message from christ, Unconditional Love and Understanding,
This post is full of the opposite.
Poor God

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Andypants
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Post by Andypants » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:43 am

kybunker wrote:Once again another example of I'm right I can't hear where anyone else is right, Only what I say is right,
Obviously you are talking about yourself here.
Everyone has a different understanding of Gods Word,  that doesn't mean Gods Word is wrong, it just shows how people can have little understanding.
If you are refusing Christ because of your judgement on the many people with little understanding of his words, then poor you.
Finding your own way to God doesn't give you a right to deny everyone elses way to God, you are doing exactly the thing you are rebuking.

For me it is simple, I know the Bible is correct, if someone says something contrary to the teaches of the Bible, I know they are incorrect. I am not rellying on my own knowledge or genious, but that of God. If you refuse Christ, you are one of the many incorrect.
Why? Because you knowledge is limited to your own genious, and despite how wise you think you may be, Christ beats you at every turn.
I would much rather grow in the knowledge of Gods teachings, then grow in the knowledge of the many possible fantasies of my imagination.

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Post by Danny » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:59 am

:)
Last edited by Danny on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Andypants
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Post by Andypants » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

You make the mistake of refuting the Bible by the workings of the church.
The Cathlic church has done many wrong doings, because it is the Great Whore of the earth.
The Cathlic Church also killed many for the crime of reading the Bible, which was only allowed to be read by the priests of the church.
The persecution were against all christians.

Indeed there are inspired books outside the Bible, I did not say there weren't.
However some of these books are also false, so a person should be careful.
My point was, the books within the Bible are correct.
Yes the power of the Great Whore has caused some works to be lost and removed, parts that give much futher insight.
However with those parts left a person can still gain great insight.
I would recommend to any man to research the lost books and newly found books of the teachings of Christ.

There have been many great spiritual men in the past, who haved learnt alot of reality and spiritual reality, these things they understood by there own wisdom. I say again my trust is in the correct word of God. If you wish to follow the teachings of a man or men, your choice.


In genises it says US correct.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14-18
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'") And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Understanding only comes from the Bible with faith, there can be no wisdom given unless a man show faith in the source.
You will never understand Gods Word without faith.

The bible is Foundation Knowledge, the wisdom comes through walking the path of Christ once you have built yourself upon sturdy foundation. The wisom comes from contemplating the Teachings of Christ and the Prophets of God.

Until you have faith, the teachings within the Bible will fly straight over your head.
This is because we are judged by our knowledge, the more you know, the more you are disgraced when you sin.
If you were to be given understanding as is, it would only condemn you.
My prayers are with you, that you might realize the truth.

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Post by Danny » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:12 am

:)
Last edited by Danny on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Andypants
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Post by Andypants » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:25 pm

Danny wrote:So tell me wise one.

What is the the plan.

That the proverbial shit will hit the fan.

Billions will perish.
You don't need a Bible to tell you this part is going to happen, just read the news.

It you had some understanding of prophesy and Bible history, you would know the Bible has a very good track record for predicting events of the future. You would see how the events of today are happening as prophecied, in some instances even very specific, although in the form of parables. You cannot prove something wrong, you can only prove you cannot do it or you cannot understand it.

Yes very simply, the shit hits the fan.
But the Son of God does not come to save the world, the world and its people have earned their fate. Instead he comes to save all those who believed in his name.
Those of the world share in the fate of the world, those of Christ share in the promise of Christ.

I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: Therefore choose life. [Deuteronomy 30:19]

Refuse the evil, and choose the good. [Isaiah 7:15]

See the man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope for a fool than for him. [Proverbs 26:7]

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. [1 Corinthians 3:18-19]

Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and don't lean on your own understanding. In all things acknowledge him, and he shall direct your way. [Proverbs 3:5, 6]

Enter through the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But how narrow is the gate that leads to life, how rough the road, and how few there are who find it. [Mathew 7:13-14]

Abraham Lincoln: I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book.

Danny
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Post by Danny » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:22 pm

:)
Last edited by Danny on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

kybunker
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Post by kybunker » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:26 pm

Thanks for totally misinterperting my post,
This is exactly the point I was trying to get across.
FYI.... There Is no denial in Christ on my end,
I believe as I do, I have learned I don't have to explain my relationship with christ to anyone.
Christs teaching was and is based on unconditional love and understanding.
Once you remember to love as a child, You will understand.

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