The Message of Christ
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123
The Message of Christ
The exoteric teachings of every religion reveal the truths that it teaches in it simplest and clearest form, but at the same time, they should embody all the essential and important principles that every believer should know.
Too often, the true teachings are ignored, misinterpreted and misunderstood. Instead, false teachings proliferate, confuse and mislead many.
Perhaps, it is time that we reflect and again evaluate our thinking relating to the different religions. I invite everyone to share his personal insights so that we may together come to a better understanding of these different world religions.
HInduism
http://mysticboard.org/sp ... indus.html
Buddhism
http://mysticboard.org/sp ... iving.html
Islam
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=47013
Christianity
In the little town of Bethlehem in Palestine, 2,000 years ago, there was born in a lowly manger, a male child, son to the carpenter Joseph and his wife, Mary, who belonged to a subject people, the Jews, under the rule of the Roman conquerors. This child was later to be called the Son of God, the King of kings. Coming into the world at a time when the world had turned itself away from God, through him, God gave to the world His love, His truth and His light.
The people had departed from the teachings of the old prophets. Driven by their lusts for the things of the flesh, they had forgotten God and thought only of their own selfish interests. The principles and teachings of Judaism were cancelled out by the corruptness of its high priests and the deafness of its followers. The need for God’s guidance was great. And God sent Jesus.
While Jesus is the Master of the World, he, like Gautama, the Buddha, before him, went into actual preparation for the first 30 years of his life, learning from others, and remembering what others did not know. For he comes from above. He is not of this world. He comes from Heaven.
When it was time for him to do his Father’s work, he taught and preached with great authority surpassing that of all his elders and even the prophets before him. His life and teachings are embodied in the New Testament Gospels. And all that he taught can be summarized into two great commandments — "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself." By his works, the world knows him. And all who are of the Truth listens to him.
The followers of the teachings of Jesus, the Christ, were later on called Christians. And, subsequently, the Christian Church was organized under the leadership of Peter and Paul and spread all over the world.
Jesus upgrades the Old Testament teachings
In most all cases when asked as to their specific objections to religion, critics and non-believers cite false, obsolete and superseded teachings found in the Holy Scriptures of all the religions. They fail to realize that all instruction, specially divine instruction, is progressive -- beginning from the simple basic and graduating to the more complex and advanced.
So did Jesus refute most all of the objectionable Old Testament teachings. Just to mention a few to give everyone a clearer idea, but there are many:
1. In place of the tribal god Jehovah, the angry and jealous god of the Hebrews, Jesus revealed the One God of love, justice and mercy Who loves all His children, assuring us that there is a valid spiritual reason for everything that happens to everyone.
2. Instead of separation, isolation and the elimination of all enemies, inferior races and rival tribes, he taught that all men are brothers. We should all learn to love one another and live in harmony.
2. An eye for an eye was replaced by Forgive, Turn your other cheek and Love your enemies. This while assuring everyone that God's exacting divine justice will be meted out to everyone.
3. Animal and human sacrifices are discouraged in favor of the living practice of love, mercy, kindness and service to our fellowmen. Even though this is still widely believed and taught by his misguided followers, Jesus should not be regarded as a human sacrifice who died as a ransom for our sins. Instead, everyone of us will have to live as he lived, following his example as best we can.
4. He simplified the 10 Commandments and converted them into just 2 -- Love God and love your neighbor as yourself, affording us more leeway in recognition of our higher stage of development from that of the ancient Hebrews.
5. Many of the over 600 Mosaic Laws were revealed as worthless and useless traditions that even ran contrary to the true laws of God. The prohibitions against eating non-kosher foods and the detailed procedures for washing pots, pans, and other worldly rules and practices, etc. -- all man-made laws. God's laws relate to Spirit and are not so much concerned with material and physical considerations.
6. He clarified the many integral parts of love. Do not judge or criticize. Forgive. We should mind our own business -- the board in our own eye -- and not interfere with someone else's. Practice tolerance and non-violence. Serve rather than seek to be served -- the greatest of all is the servant of all. Do unto others as you would want others to do unto you.
7. He also provided us with clearer insights regarding the things of heaven and the goings on there. He enjoins us to study and prepare for the True Life that comes after earth life. Our fate depends on us, entirely -- what we think and do. And our enjoyment of everything in life is based on merit.
8. Before he left us, he told us that God would send the Holy Spirits in his name to guide us to "all truth." He promised that he will return, reincarnate, to teach us more, those that he wasn't able to tell us before, even the mysteries kept hidden since the foundation of the world. He will speak no longer in parables, but he will teach us plainly. And to those who have kept faith with him, his promises are being fulfilled even now.
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lighting strikes twice
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My friend you err terribly! One of the mysteries is the sacrificial Lamb, and you distort the Gospel as it was taught by Jesus! I will gladly show you your errors if you will provide the scriptural evidence to back up you claims. Sorry, for being so upfront as my comments are not personal but a matter of the truth! :smt005
No need to be sorry. I did ask for comments. We won't always agree. But let us present our arguments and allow everyone to individually decide the merits. And do let us agree not to be disagreeable. Don't worry about it. Just please be specific. Where do you feel I erred?
Re: sacrificial lamb:
Animal and human sacrifice
Some reasons why humans are sacrificed according to Wikipedia:
1. Sacrifice by Indian adherents of Tantrism who believe that human sacrifices to the gods can change their fortune.
2. Sacrifice to accompany the dedication of a new building like a temple or bridge. Chinese legends hold that thousands of people were entombed in the Great Wall of China which may be a metaphorical statement, considering the labor and investment of the construction.
3. Sacrifice in Aztec and Mayan cultures to the god of fertility to assure good corn harvest.
4. Sacrifice of his daughter by a victorious Biblical general Jephthah, and Abraham's near-sacrifice of his son to prove his loyalty to God.
5. Sacrifice upon the death of a king, high priest or great leader; the sacrifices were to serve or accompany the deceased leader in the next life. Mongols, Scythians, sometimes Egyptians and various Mesoamerican chiefs could take most of their household, including servants and concubines, with them to the next world. This is sometimes called a "retainer sacrifice," as the leader's retainers would be sacrificed along with their master.
6. Sacrifice by ritual combat. Aztecs killed prisoners in ritual combats.
7. Sacrifice for divination; a priest would try to predict the future from the body parts of a slain prisoner or slave. According to Strabo, Celts stabbed a victim with a sword and divined the future from his death spasms.
8. Sacrifice in times of natural disaster. Droughts, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. were seen as a sign of anger or displeasure of gods and sacrifices were made to appease the divine ire. Cretans tried to stop the destruction of their island this way.
In the Bible, the Hebrews (modern Jews) beginning from their Father Abraham and other ancient tribes sacrificed animals and humans for their religious purposes. In the time of Moses, the blood of the lamb ensured that the Angel of Death would Passover the Jewish homes and spare their first-born. Much later because of the prevailing beliefs, Jesus came to be regarded as one such human sacrifice, in deference to the pagan practices of the reigning Romans during those periods.
Does your God delight in someone else suffering and paying for your sins? Would He even be approving of such a repulsive idea? Would this be just and fair to everyone involved? Didn't He decree that everyone shall be held personally responsible and liable for his own thoughts and actions? Did He not through Christ and all the prophets make known His commandments and rules of conduct that we should follow or face the consequences? Doesn't the Law of Sowing and Reaping apply in this situation? Is it okay for a transgressor to simply confess his sins, admit his fault saying he is sorry and then pray a few Hail Marys, and he will be forgiven?
We all should think again.
Yet today, although this abhorrent practice is much condemned, still, Christians everywhere believe and insist that Christ suffered and died to pay for their sins, releasing them from their accountability.
Where did Jesus teach this in his own words? Or is this simply another misconception and false teaching of mere followers and misguided Biblical writers and editors? What are your thoughts regarding this dogma of the churches?
In fact, Jesus himself was very emphatic when he taught us something else, altogether:
"Seek out the meaning of this particular verse of Scripture, ‘It isn’t your sacrifices and gifts that matter; instead, you must be merciful and kind.’” (MT 9)
"Not everyone who calls me ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do." (MT 7)
"Settle disputes with your adversary, amicably, before it is too late; otherwise, he might drag you into court and the court would hand you over to the authorities to be thrown in jail. I tell you, you won’t be released from there until you have paid the last penny." (MT 5)
"‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison and you visited me.’
"Then, the righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you anything to drink? Or a stranger and help you? Or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
"And the King will tell them, ‘When you did this for the least of my brothers, you were doing it for me!’" (MT 25)
Re: sacrificial lamb:
Animal and human sacrifice
Some reasons why humans are sacrificed according to Wikipedia:
1. Sacrifice by Indian adherents of Tantrism who believe that human sacrifices to the gods can change their fortune.
2. Sacrifice to accompany the dedication of a new building like a temple or bridge. Chinese legends hold that thousands of people were entombed in the Great Wall of China which may be a metaphorical statement, considering the labor and investment of the construction.
3. Sacrifice in Aztec and Mayan cultures to the god of fertility to assure good corn harvest.
4. Sacrifice of his daughter by a victorious Biblical general Jephthah, and Abraham's near-sacrifice of his son to prove his loyalty to God.
5. Sacrifice upon the death of a king, high priest or great leader; the sacrifices were to serve or accompany the deceased leader in the next life. Mongols, Scythians, sometimes Egyptians and various Mesoamerican chiefs could take most of their household, including servants and concubines, with them to the next world. This is sometimes called a "retainer sacrifice," as the leader's retainers would be sacrificed along with their master.
6. Sacrifice by ritual combat. Aztecs killed prisoners in ritual combats.
7. Sacrifice for divination; a priest would try to predict the future from the body parts of a slain prisoner or slave. According to Strabo, Celts stabbed a victim with a sword and divined the future from his death spasms.
8. Sacrifice in times of natural disaster. Droughts, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. were seen as a sign of anger or displeasure of gods and sacrifices were made to appease the divine ire. Cretans tried to stop the destruction of their island this way.
In the Bible, the Hebrews (modern Jews) beginning from their Father Abraham and other ancient tribes sacrificed animals and humans for their religious purposes. In the time of Moses, the blood of the lamb ensured that the Angel of Death would Passover the Jewish homes and spare their first-born. Much later because of the prevailing beliefs, Jesus came to be regarded as one such human sacrifice, in deference to the pagan practices of the reigning Romans during those periods.
Does your God delight in someone else suffering and paying for your sins? Would He even be approving of such a repulsive idea? Would this be just and fair to everyone involved? Didn't He decree that everyone shall be held personally responsible and liable for his own thoughts and actions? Did He not through Christ and all the prophets make known His commandments and rules of conduct that we should follow or face the consequences? Doesn't the Law of Sowing and Reaping apply in this situation? Is it okay for a transgressor to simply confess his sins, admit his fault saying he is sorry and then pray a few Hail Marys, and he will be forgiven?
We all should think again.
Yet today, although this abhorrent practice is much condemned, still, Christians everywhere believe and insist that Christ suffered and died to pay for their sins, releasing them from their accountability.
Where did Jesus teach this in his own words? Or is this simply another misconception and false teaching of mere followers and misguided Biblical writers and editors? What are your thoughts regarding this dogma of the churches?
In fact, Jesus himself was very emphatic when he taught us something else, altogether:
"Seek out the meaning of this particular verse of Scripture, ‘It isn’t your sacrifices and gifts that matter; instead, you must be merciful and kind.’” (MT 9)
"Not everyone who calls me ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do." (MT 7)
"Settle disputes with your adversary, amicably, before it is too late; otherwise, he might drag you into court and the court would hand you over to the authorities to be thrown in jail. I tell you, you won’t be released from there until you have paid the last penny." (MT 5)
"‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison and you visited me.’
"Then, the righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you anything to drink? Or a stranger and help you? Or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
"And the King will tell them, ‘When you did this for the least of my brothers, you were doing it for me!’" (MT 25)
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lighting strikes twice
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Well, it's apparent you teach another doctrine and not the Gospel!! First, I am not swayed by the numbers that are opposed to Christ. So, that is not sign of what is the truth! We need a knowledge of God the redeemer, in Christ, as it was revealed to the fathers, under the law, and to us under the Gospel.
Because of the fall and the revolt of Adam, the human race became degenerate because of the original sin! How important is it to know our nature?
John 10:25-30
"Jesus answered them, I told you and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life and they shall never parish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and My Father are one."
Because of the fall and the revolt of Adam, the human race became degenerate because of the original sin! How important is it to know our nature?
John 10:25-30
"Jesus answered them, I told you and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life and they shall never parish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and My Father are one."
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lighting strikes twice
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Jesus said, These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me. John 16
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me. John 16
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lighting strikes twice
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King James Bible
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. :smt005
Jesus spoke these words to those who you demean as misguided, His apostles! Can you see yourself in the above statement? :smt005 :smt005
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. :smt005
Jesus spoke these words to those who you demean as misguided, His apostles! Can you see yourself in the above statement? :smt005 :smt005
Last edited by lighting strikes twice on Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lighting strikes twice
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Perhaps, it would be more helpful to everyone if you rebutted the arguments I presented regarding the "false" teaching on Jesus being a sacrificial lamb who paid for our sins, instead of just issuing blanket denials.
You will note that the passages I quoted are the express words of Jesus, himself. They are clearly not my own thoughts or teachings.
You will note that the passages I quoted are the express words of Jesus, himself. They are clearly not my own thoughts or teachings.
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lighting strikes twice
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So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not heed them. I am the door; if any one enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep."
"I am the good shepherd; I know My own and My own know Me, as The Father knows Me and I know The Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed My voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason The Father loves Me, because I lay down My life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from My Father."
(John 10:7-18 RSV) :smt005
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep."
"I am the good shepherd; I know My own and My own know Me, as The Father knows Me and I know The Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed My voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason The Father loves Me, because I lay down My life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from My Father."
(John 10:7-18 RSV) :smt005
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lighting strikes twice
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lighting strikes twice
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lighting strikes twice
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King James Bible
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Jesus spoke these words to those who you demean as misguided, His apostles! Can you see yourself in the above statement? :smt005 :smt005
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Jesus spoke these words to those who you demean as misguided, His apostles! Can you see yourself in the above statement? :smt005 :smt005
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lighting strikes twice
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John
Chapter 8
1
while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 1
2
But early in the morning he arrived again in the temple area, and all the people started coming to him, and he sat down and taught them.
3
Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle.
4
They said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery.
5
Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. 2 So what do you say?"
6
They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. 3
7
4 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
8
Again he bent down and wrote on the ground.
9
And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him.
10
Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11
She replied, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more."
12
5 Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13
So the Pharisees said to him, "You testify on your own behalf, so your testimony cannot be verified."
14
Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony can be verified, 6 because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
15
You judge by appearances, 7 but I do not judge anyone.
16
And even if I should judge, my judgment is valid, because I am not alone, but it is I and the Father who sent me.
17
Even in your law 8 it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified.
18
I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me."
19
So they said to him, "Where is your father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
20
He spoke these words while teaching in the treasury in the temple area. But no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.
21
9 10 He said to them again, "I am going away and you will look for me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come."
22
11 So the Jews said, "He is not going to kill himself, is he, because he said, 'Where I am going you cannot come'?"
23
He said to them, "You belong to what is below, I belong to what is above. You belong to this world, but I do not belong to this world.
24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, 12 you will die in your sins."
25
13 So they said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them, "What I told you from the beginning.
26
I have much to say about you in condemnation. But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world."
27
They did not realize that he was speaking to them of the Father.
28
So Jesus said (to them), "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I say only what the Father taught me.
29
The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I always do what is pleasing to him."
30
Because he spoke this way, many came to believe in him.
31
14 15 Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
33
They answered him, "We are descendants of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. 16 How can you say, 'You will become free'?"
34
Jesus answered them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
35
A slave does not remain in a household forever, but a son 17 always remains.
36
So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free.
37
I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are trying to kill me, because my word has no room among you.
38
18 I tell you what I have seen in the Father's presence; then do what you have heard from the Father."
39
19 They answered and said to him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works of Abraham.
40
But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God; Abraham did not do this.
41
You are doing the works of your father!" (So) they said to him, "We are not illegitimate. We have one Father, God."
42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and am here; I did not come on my own, but he sent me.
43
Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot bear to hear my word.
44
You belong to your father the devil and you willingly carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
45
But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.
46
Can any of you charge me with sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me?
47
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God."
48
The Jews answered and said to him, "Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan 20 and are possessed?"
49
Jesus answered, "I am not possessed; I honor my Father, but you dishonor me.
50
I do not seek my own glory; there is one who seeks it and he is the one who judges.
51
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death."
52
(So) the Jews said to him, "Now we are sure that you are possessed. Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, 'Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.'
53
Are you greater than our father Abraham, 21 who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?"
54
Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.'
55
You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word.
56
Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it 22 and was glad.
57
So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?" 23
58
24 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."
59
So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.
Chapter 8
1
while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 1
2
But early in the morning he arrived again in the temple area, and all the people started coming to him, and he sat down and taught them.
3
Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle.
4
They said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery.
5
Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. 2 So what do you say?"
6
They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. 3
7
4 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
8
Again he bent down and wrote on the ground.
9
And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him.
10
Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11
She replied, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more."
12
5 Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13
So the Pharisees said to him, "You testify on your own behalf, so your testimony cannot be verified."
14
Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony can be verified, 6 because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
15
You judge by appearances, 7 but I do not judge anyone.
16
And even if I should judge, my judgment is valid, because I am not alone, but it is I and the Father who sent me.
17
Even in your law 8 it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified.
18
I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me."
19
So they said to him, "Where is your father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
20
He spoke these words while teaching in the treasury in the temple area. But no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.
21
9 10 He said to them again, "I am going away and you will look for me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come."
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11 So the Jews said, "He is not going to kill himself, is he, because he said, 'Where I am going you cannot come'?"
23
He said to them, "You belong to what is below, I belong to what is above. You belong to this world, but I do not belong to this world.
24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, 12 you will die in your sins."
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13 So they said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them, "What I told you from the beginning.
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I have much to say about you in condemnation. But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world."
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They did not realize that he was speaking to them of the Father.
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So Jesus said (to them), "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I say only what the Father taught me.
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The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I always do what is pleasing to him."
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Because he spoke this way, many came to believe in him.
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14 15 Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
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and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
33
They answered him, "We are descendants of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. 16 How can you say, 'You will become free'?"
34
Jesus answered them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
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A slave does not remain in a household forever, but a son 17 always remains.
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So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free.
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I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are trying to kill me, because my word has no room among you.
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18 I tell you what I have seen in the Father's presence; then do what you have heard from the Father."
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19 They answered and said to him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works of Abraham.
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But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God; Abraham did not do this.
41
You are doing the works of your father!" (So) they said to him, "We are not illegitimate. We have one Father, God."
42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and am here; I did not come on my own, but he sent me.
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Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot bear to hear my word.
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You belong to your father the devil and you willingly carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
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But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.
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Can any of you charge me with sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me?
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Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God."
48
The Jews answered and said to him, "Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan 20 and are possessed?"
49
Jesus answered, "I am not possessed; I honor my Father, but you dishonor me.
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I do not seek my own glory; there is one who seeks it and he is the one who judges.
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Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death."
52
(So) the Jews said to him, "Now we are sure that you are possessed. Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, 'Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.'
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Are you greater than our father Abraham, 21 who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?"
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Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.'
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You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word.
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Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it 22 and was glad.
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So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?" 23
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24 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."
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So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.
Yes. We agree on the verses that you posted. But I don't see where they contradict anything that I have written anywhere in this thread.
Jesus spoke to us in parables because much of the Higher Teachings were at that time beyond our capacity to understand them. But today, we are far more developed and advanced over the people of those times. Today, the mysteries are being unfolded in our midst. The Holy Spirits are here with us, today, guiding those who are open to their guidance.
"I have used proverbs to tell you these things, but the time is coming when the truth shall not be so veiled and I will speak to you plainly about the Father." (JN 16)
"If you adhere to my teaching, you will really be my disciples; and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free." (JN 8)
"Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you cannot understand it now. When the Spirit of Holiness and Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth." (JN 16)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (JN 14)
Jesus spoke to us in parables because much of the Higher Teachings were at that time beyond our capacity to understand them. But today, we are far more developed and advanced over the people of those times. Today, the mysteries are being unfolded in our midst. The Holy Spirits are here with us, today, guiding those who are open to their guidance.
"I have used proverbs to tell you these things, but the time is coming when the truth shall not be so veiled and I will speak to you plainly about the Father." (JN 16)
"If you adhere to my teaching, you will really be my disciples; and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free." (JN 8)
"Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you cannot understand it now. When the Spirit of Holiness and Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth." (JN 16)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (JN 14)
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