Religious Or Spiritual?
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123
I agee with Tha Alchemest, Spirtalk and Farafina here. That is why I say religions are the problem, not Religion in and of itself. We all follow are own path and use our onw tools and find our own community. Make the whole of Creation your church. This entire life (material and spiritual) is Sacred and all that we have, so cherish it and be thankful for it.
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TheAlchemist
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thank you farafina...
yes i agree...our source is our source no matter how we get there....there are many pathways to the same destination....we have been given the gift of free will to choose which path to embark on....the sights and sounds along the different paths may be different and they may lead in different directions..but when we reach our destination we find we are all in the same place.....what bothers me about some religions is the judgment part..instead of total acceptance and love for all of Gods creatures ...i know of a family that was attending their mothers funeral...the whole family was very distraught and during the church service the priest announced that he was disappointed by the fact that the children didn`t go to confession...where is the compassion there? why must guilt be placed on people? especially people who are hurting inside....thats the part that is disturbing to me....dont get me wrong if confession is a part of your ritual and it makes you feel better about yourself then by all means enjoy the process...but i dont understand how focusing on faults and weaknesses can serve anyone...wouldn`t it be better to focus on all the positive aspects ? that is what makes a person feel worthy..and we are all worthy of love and respect..
yes i agree...our source is our source no matter how we get there....there are many pathways to the same destination....we have been given the gift of free will to choose which path to embark on....the sights and sounds along the different paths may be different and they may lead in different directions..but when we reach our destination we find we are all in the same place.....what bothers me about some religions is the judgment part..instead of total acceptance and love for all of Gods creatures ...i know of a family that was attending their mothers funeral...the whole family was very distraught and during the church service the priest announced that he was disappointed by the fact that the children didn`t go to confession...where is the compassion there? why must guilt be placed on people? especially people who are hurting inside....thats the part that is disturbing to me....dont get me wrong if confession is a part of your ritual and it makes you feel better about yourself then by all means enjoy the process...but i dont understand how focusing on faults and weaknesses can serve anyone...wouldn`t it be better to focus on all the positive aspects ? that is what makes a person feel worthy..and we are all worthy of love and respect..
Peace
A thought....those that have been 'hurt' by their religious experiences wish only to dismiss this from their lives. Do they replace their religious experiences with experiences from the internet?
Religion means community or gathering together. In that aspect we have certainly replaced the church with something else in this age of the information highway.
Religion means community or gathering together. In that aspect we have certainly replaced the church with something else in this age of the information highway.
God bless, J
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TheAlchemist
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:15 am
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God resides within you ...there is no separation.... you can find people or places on the web that can help you feel more connected to your own God source ... spirit will guide you to information that can help you on your journey....just ask and you shall receive.....and be amazed....love and light to you....you are very blessed!
Peace
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Charlesman
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:04 pm
I don't know - when I think about religion, I think about dogmas, wars, intolerance, stubborness, and most of all, material power. I think spirituality is an individual thing, and as such, having a set of beliefs imposed upon you as being right, in the sense that everything else is wrong, leads me to the conclusion that religion kills spirituality. When I say religion = politics, it doesn't mean that I like it, although I admit freely that I would prefer an agnostic theocracy over a capitalistic democracy anyday. What I am basically saying is that religion is a means to control people (and make a lot of money in the process) nothing more, nothing less.
My best example is Hell - this is, in my eyes, the most efficient act of terrorism ever commited. Here is how it may very well have come to pass:
Bob the God-King, Divine Ruler of Neverland has a problem: He wants absolute control of everything and anything that goes on in his kingdom, including its people. He wants to invade the neighboring nations and expand his territory, building an empire that will last a thousand years. However, his people are pacifists - they believe in the concept of karma, and as such they are certainly not interested in bloodshed - they outright refuse to take part in war. In frustration, Bert orders 50.000 people executed as an example of the consequences of disobediance. It doesn't work. The people of Neverland also believe in the concept of reincarnation - they believe that they will eventually be born again, to fulfill their individual purposes in this world - death is merely an inconvenience. Now Bert gets an idea: A series of rules that, if followed by a people, will benefit its ruler or ruling class. A basic philosophy that they are wicked by nature, making them willing to take part in all kinds of atrocities. The concept that you only have one life, period - and that at the end, depending on whether you followed the rules or not - you are either eternally rewarded, or eternally punished. Bert realizes that this will not be achieved in his own lifetime, but he has the Divine Right, and as such, so do his children. He orders the construction of temples in all cities, where his new religion is propagandized. He outlaws the common rituals which people practiced before, such as sacrificing animals or crops, meditating, or cleansing rituals. Those who violate this are taken as slaves - those who speak out against it are declared heretics and put to death. 100 years later, Bob the Fourth invade all the neighboring villages, free cities and tribes. He enlists all the men and boys in his army, and takes the girls, women, and men unfit for military duty as slaves. He puts everyone that disobeys to death, and burns everything in his wake. After a campaign that lasts twenty years, he is unfortunately assassinated by one of his advisors who would rather be a God-King than an advisor. The next ten years sees the coming and going of twenty God-Kings - civil war ensues, and the empire ultimately falls apart.
... And that is why I see religion as politics, and the slayer of spirituality. Did you know 'Government' literally means mindcontrol? :smt017
My best example is Hell - this is, in my eyes, the most efficient act of terrorism ever commited. Here is how it may very well have come to pass:
Bob the God-King, Divine Ruler of Neverland has a problem: He wants absolute control of everything and anything that goes on in his kingdom, including its people. He wants to invade the neighboring nations and expand his territory, building an empire that will last a thousand years. However, his people are pacifists - they believe in the concept of karma, and as such they are certainly not interested in bloodshed - they outright refuse to take part in war. In frustration, Bert orders 50.000 people executed as an example of the consequences of disobediance. It doesn't work. The people of Neverland also believe in the concept of reincarnation - they believe that they will eventually be born again, to fulfill their individual purposes in this world - death is merely an inconvenience. Now Bert gets an idea: A series of rules that, if followed by a people, will benefit its ruler or ruling class. A basic philosophy that they are wicked by nature, making them willing to take part in all kinds of atrocities. The concept that you only have one life, period - and that at the end, depending on whether you followed the rules or not - you are either eternally rewarded, or eternally punished. Bert realizes that this will not be achieved in his own lifetime, but he has the Divine Right, and as such, so do his children. He orders the construction of temples in all cities, where his new religion is propagandized. He outlaws the common rituals which people practiced before, such as sacrificing animals or crops, meditating, or cleansing rituals. Those who violate this are taken as slaves - those who speak out against it are declared heretics and put to death. 100 years later, Bob the Fourth invade all the neighboring villages, free cities and tribes. He enlists all the men and boys in his army, and takes the girls, women, and men unfit for military duty as slaves. He puts everyone that disobeys to death, and burns everything in his wake. After a campaign that lasts twenty years, he is unfortunately assassinated by one of his advisors who would rather be a God-King than an advisor. The next ten years sees the coming and going of twenty God-Kings - civil war ensues, and the empire ultimately falls apart.
... And that is why I see religion as politics, and the slayer of spirituality. Did you know 'Government' literally means mindcontrol? :smt017
"I don't know - when I think about religion, I think about dogmas, wars, intolerance, stubborness, and most of all, material power. I think spirituality is an individual thing, and as such, having a set of beliefs imposed upon you as being right, in the sense that everything else is wrong, leads me to the conclusion that religion kills spirituality."
That is a very narrow definition and definitely does NOT fit ALL religious groups. There are religious groups where it is just fine to examine and find your own individual spirituality. Because in the end that is all we have - our own covenant with the God of our own understanding. As someone who believes in religion, this is rather an offensive generalization of all practitioners. Perhaps if you are interested (and therein lies the rub - once burned, twice shy) you could find this in other than ones you know.
"What I am basically saying is that religion is a means to control people (and make a lot of money in the process) nothing more, nothing less."
Lets not tar all with the same brush. In my religious following their ministers and all others serve on a volunteer basis. Their money and wherewithall to live comes from another source. As a matter of fact, most of the ministers give more than they receive re: the church. And the church itself is not rich. Another generalization shot down.
And of course, the rest of your generalizations on the philosophy of thought just don't apply to ALL religions. Please look beyond your experience to date. There is so much more in the wide, wide, world.
Back to my point....people like this that generalize and throw out all religions because of limited experience, would believe anything they hear on the internet. How sad! The internet is known as a place to be anonymous and in that anonymity is found all kinds of abuse as well as lies and deceit. And yet.....they believe without reserve.
That is a very narrow definition and definitely does NOT fit ALL religious groups. There are religious groups where it is just fine to examine and find your own individual spirituality. Because in the end that is all we have - our own covenant with the God of our own understanding. As someone who believes in religion, this is rather an offensive generalization of all practitioners. Perhaps if you are interested (and therein lies the rub - once burned, twice shy) you could find this in other than ones you know.
"What I am basically saying is that religion is a means to control people (and make a lot of money in the process) nothing more, nothing less."
Lets not tar all with the same brush. In my religious following their ministers and all others serve on a volunteer basis. Their money and wherewithall to live comes from another source. As a matter of fact, most of the ministers give more than they receive re: the church. And the church itself is not rich. Another generalization shot down.
And of course, the rest of your generalizations on the philosophy of thought just don't apply to ALL religions. Please look beyond your experience to date. There is so much more in the wide, wide, world.
Back to my point....people like this that generalize and throw out all religions because of limited experience, would believe anything they hear on the internet. How sad! The internet is known as a place to be anonymous and in that anonymity is found all kinds of abuse as well as lies and deceit. And yet.....they believe without reserve.
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Charlesman
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:04 pm
I think the issue here is how one defines the word 'religion'... And a lot of other words, as well. Chances are, based on your own (brief) description, that I would consider your own 'religious' following to be a mutual philosophy, culture, or cult - and not a religion.
And obviously, as you say, experience dictates how one defines it.
As for myself, were I, as you say, the kind of person who would believe anything I heard on the internet, then I would be the kind of person who would believe anything I heard period, and if that was the case, I would probably be a catholic or possibly a christian protestant, rather than an agnostic pantheist.
If I offended you, I'm not sorry.
And obviously, as you say, experience dictates how one defines it.
As for myself, were I, as you say, the kind of person who would believe anything I heard on the internet, then I would be the kind of person who would believe anything I heard period, and if that was the case, I would probably be a catholic or possibly a christian protestant, rather than an agnostic pantheist.
If I offended you, I'm not sorry.
I don't believe I said 'the best' nor did I hear that judgement from others on religion. The point is there are many so that all the diverse human traits can be satisfied in their community.ollieowl wrote:There is one GOD we just call (him/her it) by different names
And remember all the scripts that were written so long ago and have translated so many time
we now have so many religion saying they are best
where did it all start
One thing I do know...religions are a community of fellowship.
God bless, J
this reminded me of something my boss says
There is no such thing as an athiest when your dying.
Suzi
There is no such thing as an athiest when your dying.
Suzi
Enjoy when you can and endure when you must.
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Hi Julie,
my religious education started out at a very conservative christian (protestant) point. When i was young it was a great help not to fall apart or go a totally destructive way. I am gratefull for that but i always questioned the whole thing which made many people in these circles very uncomfortable.
I read a lot since then and searched a lot in many religions and i just found out that they can not give me anything really helpfull for my life and i came to the same conclusion.
I think there are greater powers than we are but to give them a face, gender or name gathers only small parts of the whole thing. I think many people need to stay with this small part because the whole frightens them too much or maybe it is too much to comprehend. Thats alright for me as long as they do not start to tell me what i have to believe. Many of them are very open and understand that our paths are different and have to be. Many don't and they do frighten me a lot.
my religious education started out at a very conservative christian (protestant) point. When i was young it was a great help not to fall apart or go a totally destructive way. I am gratefull for that but i always questioned the whole thing which made many people in these circles very uncomfortable.
I read a lot since then and searched a lot in many religions and i just found out that they can not give me anything really helpfull for my life and i came to the same conclusion.
I think there are greater powers than we are but to give them a face, gender or name gathers only small parts of the whole thing. I think many people need to stay with this small part because the whole frightens them too much or maybe it is too much to comprehend. Thats alright for me as long as they do not start to tell me what i have to believe. Many of them are very open and understand that our paths are different and have to be. Many don't and they do frighten me a lot.
Peace has never come from dropping bombs. Real peace comes from enlightenment and educating people to behave more in a divine manner.
Carlos Santana
Carlos Santana
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